JPC

I got the new Vorshlag cc plates installed today at Vorshlag in Plano, TX
along with Eibach Pro-Kit springs
First test drive was very good, front brake dive was near eliminated.
Can't wait for for next track day when I can adjust to the negative 3 degrees of camber. Vorshlag aligned for both street and track.

rmaginnis

Looks like a clean, stock appearance.
I believe the strut will hit the lip of the tower shown in your pick before you reach 3 degrees though. -2.4 was all I could get with the MM plates before they touch the lip.

jim woodruff

Mine will be here tomorrow. How many hours did it take to put them in?

JScheier

Ahh, so Terry was talking about you. My new plates arrived yesterday along with
my 18x10 D-Force wheels.

Install should take about 2 hours if you do it on the floor. I borrow a spring compressor from Autozone to get the front springs off. Plan on an alignment following install.

JPC

I dropped off the Boss @ 9am then picked up @ 6pm
I think they said couple hours

5 DOT 0

Very nice. I'm planning on installing the Ford Racing M-5300-P springs and I believe they are the same as the Pro-Kit springs. From looking at it Vorshlag uses a smaller nut on top of the strut and I believe this helps get more camber into the car. You might be able to just buy the nuts and use them with the M&M plates.

So the brake dive is improved, how about body roll and overall ride quality?

cloud9

Seems like each car is different. I was able to get -2.8 with MM plates and after installing the 302S suspension with -P springs, got it to -3.1 from lowering it another 1/2" up front.

cloud9

Looks good!

cloud9

Egan

Do the Vorshlag camber plates raise the front end any? I have a set on my BMW M Coupe and they are a great product. I'm sure I'll add them to the Boss as part of my eventual suspension tweaking.

mtnbikefuel80

Looking good, cant wait to get my suspension parts on. I settled for the 11+ Steeda camber plates right now to work with the 11+ Koni's. What dampers do you have?

modernbeat

We aligned Jerry's car with 2.9 degrees for track without the top of the strut hitting the tower edge. Set it for 1.5 for street use. He's on Eibach Pro Kit springs which give a very mild lowering.

And Jerry, AJ did mark the plates for those two settings. I just couldn't see the marks down in that dark hole.

With the OEM style perches it shouldn't raise it. But we've seen two different styles of perches and only have height measurements from one of them. If there is a difference, it would only be about plus or minus 4mm. With the 60mm or 2.5" perches, we've got it set up to preserve as much stroke as possible.

Just the install takes about two hours. It also takes about an hour to re-align the car after the install. We also did some additional work on Jerry's car outside the initial install.

And John, don't tease. We want PICS!!!

Fair

Yes, ultimate camber travel comes from a bunch of suspension set-up variables that are usually different car to car. Max camber travel depends on these factors: clearance from spring-to-tower, clearance from the strut top nut to the strut tower opening lip (we do indeed use a shorter M14-2.0 Nylock nut on the OEM struts), clearance from the strut top pin to the small opening in the strut tower, the camber plate design itself (usually these are NOT the limiting factor) and RIDE HEIGHT (the lower you set this the more negative camber you will get at all camber plate settings). There can also be some camber differences within the holes/slots on the lower spindle mounting flanges of the struts - which can potentially allow for more travel. Longer lower control arms will of course alter camber, as will an aftermarket K-member, or a chassis that has been tweaked/wrecked (where you often see max camber/caster differences side to side).

We set-up the new plates to the stock caster setting (+6.4°) and pushed the camber out to -4° up front on our red 2011 GT, then autocrossed it last weekend. It seems to be barely enough for this autocross set-up:



As you can see from the mid-corner race picture above, the outside tire is almost straight up and down (0° camber) when fully loaded, which means its got just enough at -4° static negative camber. This may seem like a LOT of camber (and it is) but remember: autocrossing usually requires more camber than track events, and with a LOT of grip (315/35/18 Kumho R compounds on all 4 corners) you will have more camber loss from things like bushing deflection. Lowering the car also makes it necessary to use more static camber, to compensate for geometry changes.

On most street tire equipped S197 Mustangs, somewhere around -3° front camber is a good track setting starting point.

http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Instruct...stall-Mustang/



On the red Mustang above we saw more than -5° front camber with our camber plates "maxed out", after installing a set of unmodified Moton Club Sport front struts, which had a massively slotted strut flange mounting hole. That was too much. I am not a fan of adding or adjusting negative camber at the strut flange, as it can "slip" under heavy cornering (R compounds), as well as reduces your strut-to-wheel clearance. With 18x11" wheels up front we needed all the room there we could get. So our in-house fabricator made steel slugs and filled in the slots to match the stock hole locations (which has a much smaller upper slot length), as shown below.



In case you're curious, current production S197 Mustang Motons are not built this way and don't need the fabrication work we did to this set installed on my Mustang.

So.... hopefully that cleared things up and didn't get too far off topic. I will cover more about this Moton coilover install, our new camber plates, new settings we tested last weekend, and more about our red 2011 GT in my next "2011 GT project thread update", later this week (located on 4 forums). I've also got a bunch of pics from Jerry's Boss302 camber plate install we did yesterday that I'll crop and post up soon.

Thanks,

5 DOT 0

Do you sell these nuts separately?

iDrive

Terry,

My Evo DB Moton's came with multiple plates that had offset holes for additional camber. The small plates mounted on the outside of the Strut ears. This was 6 years ago and quite ingenious of Moton.

Question: What is the ID of your CC bearing and do you still need to take the strut out to change camber? Get that Harness bar built yet?
See you in Lincoln.

Dave

JScheier

I don't have Terry's posting / photo documentation skillz... or your beard

Should have a set of Conti take-offs mounted next week just in time for 2 days at High Plains Raceway with NASA. No time right now as I've got 2 days at High Plains instructing with BMWCCA this weekend, kid's birthday today and about 30 more hours of work this week. The flat black is going to look BA on the boss

Plus, I need to call Terry and figure out which kidney will get me into another set of ASTs That will probably happen Friday if I can get 15 minutes where I'm not in a meeting.

JPC

I need to find a twisty road in the Dallas area to test for body roll.
.....anyone have any recommendations?
Ride quality is a hair firmer. I feel steering response (turn-in) a little faster.
I have the OEM stocks/dampers still in....

Anyone in the Dallas area, I'll be at Five Star Ford in Plano car show Saturday morning (May 19th) more than happy for any test rides.

My next (planned) track day will be Saturday June 23rd ay Eagles Canyon.
That will be the big test. I'm REALLY looking forward to that day.

Terry and Jason thanks for adding your postings,
They know more than I know about the plates and installation process.

06GT

With respect to the upper nut contact/strut tower hole clearance--many race teams just take a dremel to the inboard side of the strut towers, creating a slot to fully utilize the full range of travel on the camber plates.

modernbeat

And many race teams don't do that when the rules forbid it. Unfortunately, we and many of our customers compete in the "forbid it" classes. If you've got a hot street car, or compete in a series that allows cutting the tower, then cutting is the solution to limited camber and access.

But remember that photo that Terry just posted? We get -4 degrees without cutting the tower.

fuhrius

does anyone make adjustable-length LCA's for these cars to get more camber?

Porsche's 2-piece gt3 LCA's are a great example solution (and there are folks, like RSS, that make them in the aftermarket as well). you simply add spacers between the two pieces of the LCA's to increase camber....with the added benefit of adding some track.