PonyXpress

Has anyone installed these yet? I'm looking to stay N/A with my car and I was wondering what gains could be had with these? I've searched but have only seen it discussed a few times, but no actual data

Anyone?


http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com...6550-m50br.htm

RTD

That's the cam that comes stock on your Boss.

They're selling them for GT owners that want to upgrade to the Boss cam. It has 1mm additional lift (though same duration) over the GT cam.

If you want more radical cams, Comp Cams sells a few different NA cams for these motors.

ford20

Go big or go home comp 191160 cams ... Make the most out of the available power for the Boss intake and utilize the power it makes in the upper RPMs. With the CNC'd heads and intake manifold I wouldn't be surprised to see around 30+ HP added with these cams judging by improvements that can be had with the 3V with similar mods.

PonyXpress

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to which one I clicked on, I meant this one? I saw it mentioned in another thread a while back.

M-6550-M50BEXH
*13mm Lift - 290 Duration

That being said, I'm just doing some research on ways I can make 500rwhp without going forced induction. I want to keep my LS naturally aspirated and looking to see what parts I can get from Ford Racing to get me close (hoping for that new CJ intake manifold/tb/intake to become available).

ford20

It looks like the only real difference between the CJ manifold and the Boss 302 is that with the CJ you can run a much larger oval style TB on it.

Your real gains are going to be made in aftermarket heads, cams, LT's, UD pullies if they make any for the 5.0. JPC has a kit that will make 500 HP and they are using regrinded cams which says a lot about their regrind program.

I hear you on the N/A though, before I decided to get a 5.0 and then ditch that and get my dream Boss 302 I was going to do a 420 HP N/A 3V build. I just love big power N/A cars!!

PonyXpress

So this isn't right?

http://media.ford.com/images/10031/2...s_LS_Specs.pdf

Also, I'm reading up on the new CJ and this is saw this:

RTD

Note that it says INTAKE cam. The intake cams are the same in the GT and Boss. The exhaust cams in the Boss have 1mm more lift (13mm vs 12mm) than the exhaust cams in the GT.

PonyXpress

I see that from other threads I've read...but the literature from Ford says otherwise about the cams I've seen everyone says are in it....Which is why I also put that portion of the interview with the Ford Racing engineer. What he says are in the Boss motor are in line with the literature I posted before.....hence the confusion.

ford20

These ones have a slightly different duration than the regular Boss cams.

The Boss 302 Exhaust Cams M-6550-M50BEXH with a 13mm# and 290 duration
The Boss 302R Cams M-6550-M50BR with a 13mm# and 263 duration

PonyXpress

From the article about the new 5.0 CJ, these are the cams that were used...and check this out from the article

ford20

The only thing that Team Mustang left on the table performance wise was in adding LTs from what I have read.

PonyXpress

I read that before in another thread somewhere, but now that seems to be untrue when reading about the 5.0 CJ. If they started with the Boss engine, and worked it from there, seems like more than just LTs were left on the table.

PonyXpress

From what I'm gathering, long tubes/intake/tb/tune/ and the right set of cams should get me where I want to be. I was just wondering about the cams that are actually in the Boss and what Ford Racing offers(cams from 5.0 CJ).

I wish that the Trackey could be reconfigured to work with those cams from Ford Racing since according to that article about the 5.0 CJ, the original cams that were going to be used in the production Boss were swapped...hmm I wonder if that has something to do with the missing lopey idle from the press Boss...how awesome would that be?

MJockey

Ford Racing's web site can be confusing the way the write their descriptions.

From a PM I got from Mark Wilson on said cams:
Now we just need someone to do a the cam swap and put it on a Dyno.

RTD

This is my understanding:

Stock cam specs

GT
Intake: Lift - 12MM (0.472"), Duration - 260 degrees
Exhaust: Lift - 11MM (0.433"), Duration - 263 degrees

Boss
Intake: Lift - 12MM (0.472"), Duration - 260 degrees [Same as GT]
Exhaust: Lift - 13MM (0.512"), Duration - 263 degrees

Cobra Jet cam specs

M-6550-M50BINT (the originally planned Boss intake cam that didn't make it into production, it's used in the CJ)
Lift - 13MM (0.512"), Duration - 263 degrees

M-6550-M50BEXH (the CJ exhaust cam)
Lift - 13MM (0.512"), Duration - 290 degrees

RTD

Comp Cams aftermarket cams

Stage I
Intake: Lift - 0.492", Duration - 260 degrees
Exhaust: Lift - 0.453", Duration - 267 degrees

Stage II
Intake: Lift - 0.492", Duration - 268 degrees
Exhaust: Lift - 0.453", Duration - 275 degrees

Stage III
Intake: Lift - 0.492", Duration - 276 degrees
Exhaust: Lift - 0.453", Duration - 283 degrees

All the Comp Cams cams require phase limiters that restrict the Ti-VCT movement to 20 degrees. The Ford Racings Cobra Jet cams do not appear to.

I think you're better off getting the Cobra Jet cams from Ford Racing. If only Ford would offer a compatible tune.

PonyXpress

^^ This is my plan along with the CJ intake/tb/full Kooks Boss setup w/ QTP valves

I'm going to try and talk with them and see what they will help with. The thing that sucks, is going with a aftermarket tune, I lose the Trackey and the accompanying features(launch control, engine braking), which I actually like.
I got my Trackey done last Dec when it was released and I love the features and would like to retain them with these upgrades....wishful thinking

Resolution78

love this thread..... sounds like most of us have the same goal ...500hp N/A at the wheels....... cam shafts def sound like there on my list.....AND maybe if they dont require phase limiters you can get away without tuning them..... a dyno test would tell....

also guys at diablo told me over the phone they were working on tuning software for the red key guys..........

PonyXpress

I'm hoping for something to come of it, cause like I said, I don't want to lose the trackey features. Hopefully they can sort out the tuning portion without losing those.

So my NA build will consist of:

1) CJ Cams
M-6550-M50BINT
M-6550-M50BEXH
2)CJ Intake Manifold
M-9424-M50CJ
3)CJ Throttle Body
M-9926-SCJ
4)CJ MAF 123mm
M-9600-CJ
5)Livernois valvesprings (safety measure)
LPP50-TVS-1733
6)ARP 2000 Rod bolts(safety measure)
Not sure if I need these because I can't find anything stating what rod bolts are in our cars and these were used in the 302R(according to FR, the only failures to the rod during development were attributed to the rod bolt so they switched to these) but I emailed ARP to see what they can tell me.
7)ATI Super Damper
8)Full Kooks Boss 302 exhaust w/ QTP valves
9)Tune
Plan on contacting Ford Racing about this and have a talk with them about the whole VCT thing. If they are making it work on the 13 CJ NA motor, I don't see why they can't lend a hand in some form or fashion, even if its just some tables to use as a baseline.

I'm planning to start ordering these things soon. Hopefully by the time I get home from Kuwait, I should have it all and there will be a tuning solution available for us Trackey guys so we can retain the functionality for the track days. I will be the one to make it happen if I don't get beat to the punch since I'm overseas and can't start till I'm back home lol

12C/OBoss

the rod bolts are stock 2012 GT500 bolts iirc. I will go look the article up on the roadrunner in 5.0 from last June or July