Black Key vs. TracKey: A Dyno Comparison.
11/11/11, 05:04 PM
#1
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Black Key vs. TracKey: A Dyno Comparison.
I baseline dyno'ed my BOSS in August of this year, with around 2000 miles on the odometer. I got my TracKey flash last week, and decided to do some back-to-back testing of the Black Key vs. the TracKey.
No modifications were performed to the vehicle between the baseline runs and today's runs.
The results were certainly not what I expected.
During today's runs, the TK did not make any more power or torque vs. the black key (same story from Ford insiders--no real surprise there). However, I lost 10hp and torque across the board vs. my baseline runs earlier this year. (Edit: Attributing to normal dyno variance.)
This is on the same dyno, same weather conditions, same SAE correction factor, no modifications/changes to the vehicle between run groups.
Here are comparison graphs representing the averages of all runs from each day. The blue trace is the baseline run set performed in August. The red trace is the new run set from today, including both black and red keys.
This is the same graph, but with the weather conditions shown instead of peak power values.
Here is an excel sheet of the max values for each set of runs, along with the test variables. It does look like the runs are more consistent with the 100 octane fuel.
Additionally, the TracKey had audible engine knock on throttle tip-in going to WOT below 2500rpm.
Updates:
No modifications were performed to the vehicle between the baseline runs and today's runs.
The results were certainly not what I expected.
During today's runs, the TK did not make any more power or torque vs. the black key (same story from Ford insiders--no real surprise there). However, I lost 10hp and torque across the board vs. my baseline runs earlier this year. (Edit: Attributing to normal dyno variance.)
This is on the same dyno, same weather conditions, same SAE correction factor, no modifications/changes to the vehicle between run groups.
Here are comparison graphs representing the averages of all runs from each day. The blue trace is the baseline run set performed in August. The red trace is the new run set from today, including both black and red keys.
This is the same graph, but with the weather conditions shown instead of peak power values.
Here is an excel sheet of the max values for each set of runs, along with the test variables. It does look like the runs are more consistent with the 100 octane fuel.
Additionally, the TracKey had audible engine knock on throttle tip-in going to WOT below 2500rpm.
Updates:
Hi Drew,
IMHO, there's nothing in the dyno sheets you posted that would concern me in the least.
First, great job by you to use same dyno, same car, seemingly the same weather - perhaps at least the same temperature. 10, 12, or even 15HP I say can be attruibuted to the air density, how warm the car was, small differences in fuel, etc. In my honest opinion - had you changed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, these are the results you probably would have seen. So, I wouldn't worry that the car has been de-tuned, etc. (Conversely, had you seen a similar up-tick in power, I wouldn't be the guy here telling you that you broke in the car right or that a new tune is yielding different results, etc.)
Second, having thought about it, my expectation is that both the Black and Red key would yield almost the same exact HP/TQ results at WOT. WOT in both programs is the same specification - optimize the engine for maximum power generation while keeping the engine safe. This is really the only condition that a dyno is testing. We all need to understand that there is simply a multitude of other scenarios that can and likely were altered within the ECU - things like part throttle response, how quickly timing can advance on acceleration input, decel attributes (which owners HAVE noticed), etc, etc. It just seems logical to me that charting the car's steady state cruise at any given speed, or charting WOT (***** to the wall acceleration) are two scenarios that would be the same in the Black and Red Key tunes. The transitional or anticipatory "states" are what I would expect to have the most change - and these are the ones that would be difficult to see in a traditional dyno. We may see some people start to dyno on variable load-based dynos and then I would expect that we start to see some of the differences.
The bottom line: I wouldn't worry about the results you have seen.
IMHO, there's nothing in the dyno sheets you posted that would concern me in the least.
First, great job by you to use same dyno, same car, seemingly the same weather - perhaps at least the same temperature. 10, 12, or even 15HP I say can be attruibuted to the air density, how warm the car was, small differences in fuel, etc. In my honest opinion - had you changed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, these are the results you probably would have seen. So, I wouldn't worry that the car has been de-tuned, etc. (Conversely, had you seen a similar up-tick in power, I wouldn't be the guy here telling you that you broke in the car right or that a new tune is yielding different results, etc.)
Second, having thought about it, my expectation is that both the Black and Red key would yield almost the same exact HP/TQ results at WOT. WOT in both programs is the same specification - optimize the engine for maximum power generation while keeping the engine safe. This is really the only condition that a dyno is testing. We all need to understand that there is simply a multitude of other scenarios that can and likely were altered within the ECU - things like part throttle response, how quickly timing can advance on acceleration input, decel attributes (which owners HAVE noticed), etc, etc. It just seems logical to me that charting the car's steady state cruise at any given speed, or charting WOT (***** to the wall acceleration) are two scenarios that would be the same in the Black and Red Key tunes. The transitional or anticipatory "states" are what I would expect to have the most change - and these are the ones that would be difficult to see in a traditional dyno. We may see some people start to dyno on variable load-based dynos and then I would expect that we start to see some of the differences.
The bottom line: I wouldn't worry about the results you have seen.
Last edited by 06GT; 11/14/11 at 10:44 AM.
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Boss12car (9/28/23)
11/11/11, 05:15 PM
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11/11/11, 05:17 PM
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Thanks for posting Drew. good info. Any reason you did not do back to back runs same day with the two different keys?
I really wanted to run Trackey for Daytona but I am wondering if I should just run the normal tune until all this is sorted out.
11/11/11, 05:27 PM
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It has always been said that it was never meant to increase power, so what exactly were you expecting? I see you were comparing this run with one from a few months ago. Even if you say that the weather conditions were exactly the same there are other parameters involved with the numbers. One of these parameters is if the catalyst temp protection was invoked which will richen the a/f ratio to protect the catalyst from overheating. Why didn't you run both keys this last time for more comparable results?
The red key is more about sharpening throttle response and allowing the driver to feel more in tune with the car. Designed for 'Track Use Only' is stated for a reason.
The red key is more about sharpening throttle response and allowing the driver to feel more in tune with the car. Designed for 'Track Use Only' is stated for a reason.
11/11/11, 05:31 PM
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There are so many variables: weather related as in temperature and humidity, fuel related as in different blends from different refineries, the tank mix at the service station, the obvious octane choice, oxygenated fuels for different seasons depending upon the state, etc, that to state that you lost power without a back to back run from the two different keys at the same session is well, not credit worthy. No need to have a chicken little moment, do another dyno run with both keys next time.
11/11/11, 05:31 PM
#7
It has always been said that it was never meant to increase power, so what exactly were you expecting? I see you were comparing this run with one from a few months ago. Even if you say that the weather conditions were exactly the same there are other parameters involved with the numbers. One of these parameters is if the catalyst temp protection was invoked which will richen the a/f ratio to protect the catalyst from overheating. Why didn't you run both keys this last time for more comparable results?
The red key is more about sharpening throttle response and allowing the driver to feel more in tune with the car. Designed for 'Track Use Only' is stated for a reason.
The red key is more about sharpening throttle response and allowing the driver to feel more in tune with the car. Designed for 'Track Use Only' is stated for a reason.
Last edited by Rather B.Blown; 11/11/11 at 05:33 PM.
11/11/11, 05:33 PM
#8
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There's nothing to sort out, use it yourself and try to tell me it's not better on a track. The sharper throttle response, increased engine braking off-throttle, the exhaust burbling and popping on a high rpm coast down. Oh yeah, and the idle too.
11/11/11, 06:04 PM
#9
One of the local Boss owners stated he damaged his engine this weekend using the Red Key. He has not told me what exactly the problem is at this point and I am still waiting on details. There is a rumor that another Boss was also damaged down here while running Red Key. Others are reporting detonation and when this was reported to Ford they were told they are not alone. Until there is proof that the tune did any damage it is all speculation but it is, at least to me, something to think about. I am not complaining or even saying anything is wrong, just thinking I should proceed with caution.
http://bossmustangsonline.com/boss-302-technical-forum/got-my-track-key-installed-and-now-detonation/15/
Last edited by 2012YellowBoss; 11/11/11 at 06:07 PM.
11/11/11, 06:08 PM
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Hi Drew,
IMHO, there's nothing in the dyno sheets you posted that would concern me in the least.
First, great job by you to use same dyno, same car, seemingly the same weather - perhaps at least the same temperature. 10, 12, or even 15HP I say can be attruibuted to the air density, how warm the car was, small differences in fuel, etc. In my honest opinion - had you changed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, these are the results you probably would have seen. So, I wouldn't worry that the car has been de-tuned, etc. (Conversely, had you seen a similar up-tick in power, I wouldn't be the guy here telling you that you broke in the car right or that a new tune is yielding different results, etc.)
Second, having thought about it, my expectation is that both the Black and Red key would yield almost the same exact HP/TQ results at WOT. WOT in both programs is the same specification - optimize the engine for maximum power generation while keeping the engine safe. This is really the only condition that a dyno is testing. We all need to understand that there is simply a multitude of other scenarios that can and likely were altered within the ECU - things like part throttle response, how quickly timing can advance on acceleration input, decel attributes (which owners HAVE noticed), etc, etc. It just seems logical to me that charting the car's steady state cruise at any given speed, or charting WOT (***** to the wall acceleration) are two scenarios that would be the same in the Black and Red Key tunes. The transitional or anticipatory "states" are what I would expect to have the most change - and these are the ones that would be difficult to see in a traditional dyno. We may see some people start to dyno on variable load-based dynos and then I would expect that we start to see some of the differences.
The bottom line: I wouldn't worry about the results you have seen.
IMHO, there's nothing in the dyno sheets you posted that would concern me in the least.
First, great job by you to use same dyno, same car, seemingly the same weather - perhaps at least the same temperature. 10, 12, or even 15HP I say can be attruibuted to the air density, how warm the car was, small differences in fuel, etc. In my honest opinion - had you changed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, these are the results you probably would have seen. So, I wouldn't worry that the car has been de-tuned, etc. (Conversely, had you seen a similar up-tick in power, I wouldn't be the guy here telling you that you broke in the car right or that a new tune is yielding different results, etc.)
Second, having thought about it, my expectation is that both the Black and Red key would yield almost the same exact HP/TQ results at WOT. WOT in both programs is the same specification - optimize the engine for maximum power generation while keeping the engine safe. This is really the only condition that a dyno is testing. We all need to understand that there is simply a multitude of other scenarios that can and likely were altered within the ECU - things like part throttle response, how quickly timing can advance on acceleration input, decel attributes (which owners HAVE noticed), etc, etc. It just seems logical to me that charting the car's steady state cruise at any given speed, or charting WOT (***** to the wall acceleration) are two scenarios that would be the same in the Black and Red Key tunes. The transitional or anticipatory "states" are what I would expect to have the most change - and these are the ones that would be difficult to see in a traditional dyno. We may see some people start to dyno on variable load-based dynos and then I would expect that we start to see some of the differences.
The bottom line: I wouldn't worry about the results you have seen.
11/11/11, 06:23 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Kendall, if YOU think this is all normal, I can live with that. 
11/11/11, 06:42 PM
#14
Is this the first you are hearing of codes, CEL and limp mode? It happens to almost every tracked Boss?
11/11/11, 07:05 PM
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My buddy has yet to finish a track day without his Boss going into limp mode. He just got the trackey and was hoping this would be a fix.
11/11/11, 07:24 PM
#17
Sorry if I complained, I am raising issues with this then just believe what I am told to believe without any supporting data. I am just wired that way.
11/11/11, 07:43 PM
#18
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For those that ask why I didn't run both keys for the baseline run: track key was not released at that time.
11/11/11, 07:54 PM
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Cel's and limp mode have been reported for months. Every Boss I run with down here has the does the same. Please point me to where you saw this relating to a trans being pulled out of the car problem since I have not seen that. As far as Trackey goes this problem was around long before Trackey was released. One complaint since has been that this was suppose to fix the issue but was taken out by CARB. I know many were looking forward to a fix of the issue and it is one of the main reasons I wanted the program.
Sorry if I complained, I am raising issues with this then just believe what I am told to believe without any supporting data. I am just wired that way.
Sorry if I complained, I am raising issues with this then just believe what I am told to believe without any supporting data. I am just wired that way.
11/11/11, 08:06 PM
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I am not understanding your graphs at all.... You say the blue is the baseline from a while ago and the red is the trackey and black key? Are those combined or what? I only see one red line and one blue line....