My 2014 lemon of a GT
8/11/13, 08:30 PM
#61
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OP...I would be just as pissed as you are and ready to shove it up their asses. When you buy a brand new car you expect no issues. I am thankful ive had no issues with my 13. And pay no attention to the ********* on here. I hope you get it straightened out soon!
8/11/13, 08:46 PM
#62
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
Also during those 11 years, I only had to replace my battery just once and that was it..
8/11/13, 10:45 PM
#63
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Lemon Law
FYI. I think your problem would "substantially impair the value", I wouldn't buy it with the steering problem present..would you?
Automobile Lemon Law
Pennsylvania's Automobile Lemon Law is designed to protect Pennsylvania consumers from unsafe and defective new cars.
The Automobile Lemon Law applies to the PURCHASE or LEASE of new vehicles that are registered in Pennsylvania. The vehicle must be used for personal, family or household purposes. Commercial vehicles, motorcycles, motor homes, and off-road vehicles are not covered by the law.
The law covers problems that occur during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership. The problem must substantially impair the value, use or safety of the vehicle. Each time you take your vehicle to the dealer for service or repair, the dealer must provide you with a copy of the repair invoice. The dealer must also notify the manufacturer that your vehicle has been brought in a second time for the same problem. As long as the first problem occurs during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership, you are covered for any subsequent problems occurring after that point.
The law allows the manufacturer three repair attempts for the same problem. If the repairs are unsuccessful, you may demand a refund or replacement vehicle. Also, if your car is at the dealership for any repairs for a cumulative total of thirty days during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, you may demand a refund or replacement.
The manufacturer is allowed to receive a reasonable offset for your use of the vehicle that you are having problems with. That refund offset can total no more than 10% of the purchase price of the vehicle or $.10 for each mile driven before the first reported repair. If the manufacturer cannot replace your particular model or year, you must be given a comparable vehicle of equal value.
Keep in mind that you lose your lemon law rights if the problem you are experiencing is the result of your modification to or your alteration, abuse or neglect of the vehicle.
Information about the lemon law and how to assert your rights should be found in your owner's manual. Any purchaser of a new motor vehicle who suffers any loss under this law may proceed directly to the manufacturer's arbitration program. Consumers may also bring a civil action in a court of common pleas and, in addition to other relief, are entitled to recover reasonable attorney's fees and all court costs. If you have an additional question regarding Pennsylvania's Lemon Law, please contact the Bureau of Consumer Protection at 1-800-441-2555.
Automobile Lemon Law
Pennsylvania's Automobile Lemon Law is designed to protect Pennsylvania consumers from unsafe and defective new cars.
The Automobile Lemon Law applies to the PURCHASE or LEASE of new vehicles that are registered in Pennsylvania. The vehicle must be used for personal, family or household purposes. Commercial vehicles, motorcycles, motor homes, and off-road vehicles are not covered by the law.
The law covers problems that occur during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership. The problem must substantially impair the value, use or safety of the vehicle. Each time you take your vehicle to the dealer for service or repair, the dealer must provide you with a copy of the repair invoice. The dealer must also notify the manufacturer that your vehicle has been brought in a second time for the same problem. As long as the first problem occurs during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles of ownership, you are covered for any subsequent problems occurring after that point.
The law allows the manufacturer three repair attempts for the same problem. If the repairs are unsuccessful, you may demand a refund or replacement vehicle. Also, if your car is at the dealership for any repairs for a cumulative total of thirty days during the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, you may demand a refund or replacement.
The manufacturer is allowed to receive a reasonable offset for your use of the vehicle that you are having problems with. That refund offset can total no more than 10% of the purchase price of the vehicle or $.10 for each mile driven before the first reported repair. If the manufacturer cannot replace your particular model or year, you must be given a comparable vehicle of equal value.
Keep in mind that you lose your lemon law rights if the problem you are experiencing is the result of your modification to or your alteration, abuse or neglect of the vehicle.
Information about the lemon law and how to assert your rights should be found in your owner's manual. Any purchaser of a new motor vehicle who suffers any loss under this law may proceed directly to the manufacturer's arbitration program. Consumers may also bring a civil action in a court of common pleas and, in addition to other relief, are entitled to recover reasonable attorney's fees and all court costs. If you have an additional question regarding Pennsylvania's Lemon Law, please contact the Bureau of Consumer Protection at 1-800-441-2555.
8/12/13, 02:01 AM
#64
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Even if the whole front suspension and steering system had to be replaced it wouldn't substantially impair the value..
I think op has a minor issue that his dealer isn't fixing properly.
I think op has a minor issue that his dealer isn't fixing properly.
Last edited by Flagstang; 8/12/13 at 02:10 AM.
8/12/13, 03:04 AM
#65
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I have another appointment today 8/12 and I also expect a call from my case manager at Ford Motors today. I'm hopeful that this is remedied. I will post back later today when I get home from the dealership for the 4th time.
On an unrelated note, I went to the American Muscle car show by my house today (AM is located within 15mi from my house). It was a good time. My buddy and I talked with Jason, the host from AM for a bit and he is a pretty cool guy. I also saw Chip Foose who was there, which was cool. They had a lot of cool cars and I was shocked how far some people came from to be there. They had that cool hot-rod shopping cart full of giveaways. The AM girls were nice scenery as well...
8/12/13, 04:44 AM
#66
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Lemon law is for cars that have major issues. Not a sound you do not like. Major means it stops you from using the car. A machine will make sounds. A large steering system like the mustangs will make sound when you are not moving.
A clunk at low speeds doesn't sound like its stopping you from buying tampons at the market.
A clunk at low speeds doesn't sound like its stopping you from buying tampons at the market.
If I shelled out the money he did on a car, and it made the clunking noise that others of the same year and make do not do, I'd be upset as well.
8/12/13, 11:29 AM
#67
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
He most certainly can indeed, as this is totally unacceptable for a brand new car..
8/12/13, 11:35 AM
#68
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
I genuinely appreciate everybody's advice and support. Regardless where we fall on the lemon law issue I think we all agree that it shouldn't take so many trips to the dealer to fix the same issue.
I have another appointment today 8/12 and I also expect a call from my case manager at Ford Motors today. I'm hopeful that this is remedied. I will post back later today when I get home from the dealership for the 4th time.
On an unrelated note, I went to the American Muscle car show by my house today (AM is located within 15mi from my house). It was a good time. My buddy and I talked with Jason, the host from AM for a bit and he is a pretty cool guy. I also saw Chip Foose who was there, which was cool. They had a lot of cool cars and I was shocked how far some people came from to be there. They had that cool hot-rod shopping cart full of giveaways. The AM girls were nice scenery as well...
I have another appointment today 8/12 and I also expect a call from my case manager at Ford Motors today. I'm hopeful that this is remedied. I will post back later today when I get home from the dealership for the 4th time.
On an unrelated note, I went to the American Muscle car show by my house today (AM is located within 15mi from my house). It was a good time. My buddy and I talked with Jason, the host from AM for a bit and he is a pretty cool guy. I also saw Chip Foose who was there, which was cool. They had a lot of cool cars and I was shocked how far some people came from to be there. They had that cool hot-rod shopping cart full of giveaways. The AM girls were nice scenery as well...
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 8/12/13 at 12:13 PM.
8/12/13, 12:01 PM
#69
A Man Just Needs Some....
How the hell did I miss this thread? You really have to show your issue to the tech working on your vehicle. Secondly, did you send a message to Deysha? There's also a number you can call to contact Ford about your concerns. Your issue hasn't been resolved because the techs don't know what to listen for or they just don't want to waste that much time on your car finding a slight noise. Deysha or your local service rep should be able to escalate the priority of your problem. Either way you don't have a lemon law case if they said they couldn't duplicate your concern.
8/12/13, 02:05 PM
#71
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The service adviser claimed it was due to the active security system which supposedly is always drawing current and is completely normal for a battery to completely discharge if it sits long enough without being driven in order to keep the battery fully charged by the alternator and was then informed to run a tender charger on it whenever the car is not in use..
The reason why I ask is, if there is some kind of motion or vibration occurring randomly but often around your car, your alarm may be going into some kind of pre-alert stage or something. Not enough to sound but enough to become active? The SA may have had a good idea, having you not setting the alarm for 10 days to see if the problem reproduced itself.
I troubleshoot very odd data network problems for a living. Sometimes you have to do wild steps to rule out variables. It would be nice if they (the dealer) could actually plot current draw over time.
As to the OP's issue. Fundamentally it's up to you to focus the troubleshoot. For example, I had a strange creaking sound in the front suspension of my Cadillac SRX. It was random but could be clearly heard driving down the road with the window down at sub 30 mph speeds. I had it back at the dealer several times. I drove with the tech in my car. He could clearly hear it. We just couldn't determine where it was.
Long story short, I gave up on the dealer. I jacked up the front end, put it on stands and removed the wheels. I pulled the bumper cover and inner fenders off both sides so I could see deep into the front end. If noticed if I struck the left rotor with my fist, I could repeatedly reproduce the noise. While someone else was pounding on the rotor. I got closer and closer to the location of the noise until I found it. A Caddy tech, during one my service appointments, dropped a 3/8 extension down the side of the motor where it stuck between the exhaust manifold and the heat shield. I could only see it just barely with the inner fender cover off. I took a picture, pulled it out and hit the rotor. No noise. I put the SRX back together and drove it around. No noise.
Fundamentally, if the tech would have done the same thing, he would have found it too. The thing is, it's not his car. I'm not saying he didn't care, just not as much as I did.
The lesson is YOU have to spend the time focus the issue to a specific, reproducible event where you can grab a technician by the back of the head and say "When I do this, it does that EVERY TIME. FIX IT!"
Last edited by ustabawannab; 8/12/13 at 02:07 PM.
8/12/13, 06:33 PM
#72
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Well, guys, I'm almost as tired of saying this as I am of doing it. I went to the dealer today who told me they again couldn't duplicate it on the lift and they now want the tech who was able to duplicate it last week and who should have never been taken off the schedule in the first place to do it TOMORROW.
As for the Ford rep., they apparently have areas assigned to them and the rep for my part of Philadelphia is on vacation until Monday and nobody is taking on her case load. So I will have to wait a week to speak with her. I hope it's resolved before then and I don't even have to speak to her.
I now have tunnel vision with the car and I'm not going to give it up until it's fixed. It's so obvious to anyone who drives it that the rack is messed up. I say rack because I can feel it pop under my feet when it clunks. I assume that this is the culprit.
I asked them to just replace the rack but Ford won't let them do it unless they are 100% positive that's the cause. It's almost laughable at this point.
I'm so tired of seeing their faces and I'm sure it's mutual lol. I've noticed a few of the people in there have been there with me the past few times so I assume they are having to make multiple trips, too.
As for the Ford rep., they apparently have areas assigned to them and the rep for my part of Philadelphia is on vacation until Monday and nobody is taking on her case load. So I will have to wait a week to speak with her. I hope it's resolved before then and I don't even have to speak to her.
I now have tunnel vision with the car and I'm not going to give it up until it's fixed. It's so obvious to anyone who drives it that the rack is messed up. I say rack because I can feel it pop under my feet when it clunks. I assume that this is the culprit.
I asked them to just replace the rack but Ford won't let them do it unless they are 100% positive that's the cause. It's almost laughable at this point.
I'm so tired of seeing their faces and I'm sure it's mutual lol. I've noticed a few of the people in there have been there with me the past few times so I assume they are having to make multiple trips, too.
8/13/13, 10:38 AM
#75
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Wilson, I understand your frustration. I'm just thinking out loud here, but this may help. My Wifey's 2011's GT steering column had what I described as a grinding noise when it was turned. On the first visit to the dealer the service rep. said he wasn't sure , but would be happy to pull the steering column to take a look see. I didn't want to do a search like that, so I told him we would wait. He said he would keep his ears open for any problems like mine. To make a long story short, it turned out to be the steering rack even though the noise sounded like it was in the column. They replaced the rack, and all was well. Just some food for thought next time your at the dealer. As far as Ford not wanting to fix the rack on yours, it has a lot to do with how your service dept. reports the problem. A different word in the right place can go a long way. Good luck, I hope they get you fixed up soon.
Some things that may help you feel better. I've had the two pony projector lights replaced, the right door latch assembly replaced, and the lower control arms replaced on our 2013 Mustang GT in the first year. But, you know I still love the car.
Some things that may help you feel better. I've had the two pony projector lights replaced, the right door latch assembly replaced, and the lower control arms replaced on our 2013 Mustang GT in the first year. But, you know I still love the car.
Last edited by wanted33; 8/13/13 at 10:41 AM.
8/13/13, 12:34 PM
#76
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Thank you for the mention, karrnutt!
Thank you for the update, wilson68944. I know this has been lengthy enough for you, but please be sure to speak to your CSM when she returns.
Deysha
Well, guys, I'm almost as tired of saying this as I am of doing it. I went to the dealer today who told me they again couldn't duplicate it on the lift and they now want the tech who was able to duplicate it last week and who should have never been taken off the schedule in the first place to do it TOMORROW.
As for the Ford rep., they apparently have areas assigned to them and the rep for my part of Philadelphia is on vacation until Monday and nobody is taking on her case load. So I will have to wait a week to speak with her. I hope it's resolved before then and I don't even have to speak to her.
As for the Ford rep., they apparently have areas assigned to them and the rep for my part of Philadelphia is on vacation until Monday and nobody is taking on her case load. So I will have to wait a week to speak with her. I hope it's resolved before then and I don't even have to speak to her.
Deysha
8/13/13, 01:13 PM
#77
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
Now that was real helpful, huh ! As I'm sure Wilson is already fully aware of that..
8/13/13, 01:39 PM
#78
Legacy TMS Member
8/13/13, 01:46 PM
#79
A Man Just Needs Some....
8/13/13, 01:49 PM
#80
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
Does your alarm have a proximity sensor? Something that would sound the alarm if you stuck your arm in a window without touching anything. Or does it have a vibration sensor of some sort?
The reason why I ask is, if there is some kind of motion or vibration occurring randomly but often around your car, your alarm may be going into some kind of pre-alert stage or something. Not enough to sound but enough to become active? The SA may have had a good idea, having you not setting the alarm for 10 days to see if the problem reproduced itself.
I troubleshoot very odd data network problems for a living. Sometimes you have to do wild steps to rule out variables. It would be nice if they (the dealer) could actually plot current draw over time.
As to the OP's issue. Fundamentally it's up to you to focus the troubleshoot. For example, I had a strange creaking sound in the front suspension of my Cadillac SRX. It was random but could be clearly heard driving down the road with the window down at sub 30 mph speeds. I had it back at the dealer several times. I drove with the tech in my car. He could clearly hear it. We just couldn't determine where it was.
Long story short, I gave up on the dealer. I jacked up the front end, put it on stands and removed the wheels. I pulled the bumper cover and inner fenders off both sides so I could see deep into the front end. If noticed if I struck the left rotor with my fist, I could repeatedly reproduce the noise. While someone else was pounding on the rotor. I got closer and closer to the location of the noise until I found it. A Caddy tech, during one my service appointments, dropped a 3/8 extension down the side of the motor where it stuck between the exhaust manifold and the heat shield. I could only see it just barely with the inner fender cover off. I took a picture, pulled it out and hit the rotor. No noise. I put the SRX back together and drove it around. No noise.
Fundamentally, if the tech would have done the same thing, he would have found it too. The thing is, it's not his car. I'm not saying he didn't care, just not as much as I did.
The lesson is YOU have to spend the time focus the issue to a specific, reproducible event where you can grab a technician by the back of the head and say "When I do this, it does that EVERY TIME. FIX IT!"
The reason why I ask is, if there is some kind of motion or vibration occurring randomly but often around your car, your alarm may be going into some kind of pre-alert stage or something. Not enough to sound but enough to become active? The SA may have had a good idea, having you not setting the alarm for 10 days to see if the problem reproduced itself.
I troubleshoot very odd data network problems for a living. Sometimes you have to do wild steps to rule out variables. It would be nice if they (the dealer) could actually plot current draw over time.
As to the OP's issue. Fundamentally it's up to you to focus the troubleshoot. For example, I had a strange creaking sound in the front suspension of my Cadillac SRX. It was random but could be clearly heard driving down the road with the window down at sub 30 mph speeds. I had it back at the dealer several times. I drove with the tech in my car. He could clearly hear it. We just couldn't determine where it was.
Long story short, I gave up on the dealer. I jacked up the front end, put it on stands and removed the wheels. I pulled the bumper cover and inner fenders off both sides so I could see deep into the front end. If noticed if I struck the left rotor with my fist, I could repeatedly reproduce the noise. While someone else was pounding on the rotor. I got closer and closer to the location of the noise until I found it. A Caddy tech, during one my service appointments, dropped a 3/8 extension down the side of the motor where it stuck between the exhaust manifold and the heat shield. I could only see it just barely with the inner fender cover off. I took a picture, pulled it out and hit the rotor. No noise. I put the SRX back together and drove it around. No noise.
Fundamentally, if the tech would have done the same thing, he would have found it too. The thing is, it's not his car. I'm not saying he didn't care, just not as much as I did.
The lesson is YOU have to spend the time focus the issue to a specific, reproducible event where you can grab a technician by the back of the head and say "When I do this, it does that EVERY TIME. FIX IT!"
As far as any random vibration/motion going on ? That is highly unlikely as my issues only occur while my car has sat for 10 or more days in my garage when not in usage..
I also do not set the alarm whenever my car is not in usage while inside the garage, I do however lock my doors, but I lock them manually which does not set the active motion sensors..
As for the OP's concerns, I can definitely understand his frustrations and as a matter of fact, I have an appointment at my local dealership tomorrow as I've also been experiencing a loud clunking noise on the right front passenger side whenever going over a bump or uneven pavement..
The best way I can describe it, is it sounds like metal hitting against metal and I suspect it's either the Stabilizer Bar Link or Brake Caliper..
It's also very possible it could be my Lower Ball Joint or Lower Control Arm, however my entire Lower Control Arm assembly was replaced just under 2 years ago which include the Lower Ball Joint..
In addition my upper strut mount assembly was also replaced during the same time in which everything was replaced under my ESP warranty..
In the meantime, I'll keep everyone posted and let you know how everything works out at the dealership tomorrow..