houtex

It may, but let's ask this.. will the seam sealer stick to the aluminum if the ecoat is leaking out?

It just needs to be done right. Also, regarding the ecoating:

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=23230

So... if they're using this stuff on the steel... why is the steel not showing this on the fenders, door, quarter panels, trunk and roof?

With that little realization, I've come to the conclusion it's less involved than ecoat or stamping contamination... it's the alloy used in the hood. It's non-stick. You see it on the seams because of the same reason pavements have intentional seams... expansion/contraction due to temperature. The seams aren't seams, they're the bent over edges of the hood's skin onto the structural hood frame. And when the bent lip edge expands, it expand OUT from the structural hood frame... and over time, that will crack the paint, and then the race to bubbling is on. Especially since the aluminum alloy is rather non-stick to primers and paint in the first place. Not without a really decent procedure that is more expensive to perform... namely the AP or the Self Etch Prime, and even then.. you need to rough up the surface pretty decently. Makes it harder to get a consistently and evenly painted production run if you have to do all that crap.

Of course, that's just a theory. But my question about the different functionality and results of the ecoat stand... why wasn't it a problem for the steel hoods in previous models Ford's made, and why is it NOT a problem elsewhere on the current S197s?

Tony Alonso

It might help, however, I believe I have also been told that those edges exists without seals to allow for moisture to escape. I also recall hearing that it is difficult to get all of the e-coat removed during manufacturing. Since these edges remain folded over and not sealed, that seems to be part of the problem with the leaching over time as the engine compartment heats up and cools repeatedly.

ford4v429

I doubt the sealer will stick any better than paint- BUT its more flexible than paint, and I still think it might tolerate more movement of the panels than a couple mils of very hard paint over a moving razor edge...I still feel the sharp edge breaks first, once its broke, it seems to have a affinity for moisture- mine blossomed from a few blisters to a couple inches x a foot wide over just a few months...once it starts it seems to expand exponentially. even if the very edge of the panel joint breaks adhesion of seam sealer, typical beads are 1/4~1/2 inch wide, leaving a whole lot of flexible backup to still keep water from finding its way to the sharp edge. but who knows...sounds like theres several possible/likely issues, and obviously Ford wasnt quite ready for primetime with their process or we wouldnt be having these discussions...

just hope it gets better and more care is taken in prep. looking at the cheep hyundai hood still irks me, its sealed/painted so perfectly, when our mustangs comparatively look like they were cut with a air chisel and crimped with a rock...out of sight/out of mind is one thing, but when it creeps up front and center of your pride and joy's hood at a couple years old its a darn shame. the fact its been going on so long and is still sloppy at best is more than a shame.

Ive pretty much decided before my 09 ever sees daylight it will have the hood removed and injected with a flexible paint till it seeps thru the crimp, then after cleaning out the excess/letting it dry, a flexible seam sealer around the perimeter... it might not help, but in my thinking, certainly couldnt make it any more likely to corrode than Ford made it...wonder how a miata hood is sealed- if at all? a guy at work has one he drives year round, and its old, no blisters anywhere on its aluminum body... maybe I'll ask him if i can get some pics of how Mazda did it...as ford owned them at the time, ford HAD to know what Mazda did to make their aluminum bodies last?

BGKY

Ford still doesn't care. My son has a 2012 Mustang. Paint blistering and bubbling off of the front edge of the hood. 800 miles out of warranty. I have spoken to several different folks up the chain of command at Ford. All I hear is out of warranty.... Pictures and copies of emails have now been submitted to the better business bureau.

youngstang90

How much of that started from rock chips and such.
Did he condition his paint at all?

houtex

Condition the paint? Really?

You got 25 year old paint jobs from the factory that stick better than this stuff, unconditioned as all get out.

Rock chips, sure, but even those don't bubble... I have proof. My hood. The chips don't bubble... the seams do, and it creeps to the front/top.

I've decided I'm not gonna do anything about it, because eventually, I'm having Awesome repatined in Oxford White, the way she shoulda been, and at that time, I'm going to prep the hood myself, THEN send her out for paint... Won't matter then.

Frack Ford's procedures on Aluminum... can't wait for the F150 class actions to start, and get us involved too, when the all aluminum bodies start this crud. But they'll never *rust*, that's for sure. Just uglify the paint.

ford4v429

I agree... Mine had a couple chips, no blistering at all, only what started at the hem and crept under...it was a prep issue 100% in my opinion, but i just bought a glass hood than deal with all the excuses...however, on a 2012, i would sure hope Ford would get on it, mileage is utter BS unless its had obvious damage that started it...without pics of the underside, hard to say, but if fords paint cant last 2 years they better expect some loud ex customers...im a ford guy at heart, but lack of even acknowledging a problem is not good...in my opinion if they drove it a million miles in under two years the paint should still be like new - barring stone chips... If its not chipped up/ if its blistering from under the hem, then they would know mileage has absolutely no effect... But if it is chipped up, blistering from the front, thats just neglect...my gut feling is another edge failure though, its all too common... A blind man could see the hem edge prep sucks on almost every mustang out there.

FordService

Welcome to the forum, BGKY! Has he been able to speak to his Service Manager? He’ll be in the best position to look into it and find any type of assistance available.

Deysha

DPHC13

[QUOTE=FordService;6439676]No, I understand where you’re coming from, UnrealFord. As you already know, we will repair, replace, or adjust those parts that are found to be defective in materials or workmanship during the warranty period with any of our vehicles.

Deysha[/QUOTE/

Deysha, this is part of a TSB that FORD put out about the problem...
ISSUE
Some vehicles may exhibit a bubbling or blistering under the paint on aluminum body parts. This is due to iron contamination of the aluminum panel.

I don't know about the other members on this message board and all the other owners, but I did NOT add "iron contamination" under my paint to cause the bubbling! Ford KNOWS about this and is choosing to do nothing. Thats it. I have gone to a couple of body shops and they all tell me this is NOT a fixable thing... You really have to replace the hood. Prepping and repainting will be like a bandaid and the problem will come back. This just sucks. I love my car. I am A NUT about caring for my car. This has NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with poor prep work at the factory. I have seen a lawsuit about this problem hope this helps all of us.

Tony Alonso

I thought this TSB was about the factory preparation, not that an owner caused the iron contamination.


Why did they say a new hood would take care of the issue and that your hood could not be fixed?

The root cause of potentially some of the paint bubbling issues has been said to be from "e-coat blowout" from the areas of the edges, particularly seen underneath where the seams of the panels come together. It is also my understanding that the reason it comes back is because the heat cycling in the engine bay results in more of the e-coat coming out of the edges over time, even if you do a repaint. My experience has been that the number of bubbled areas I have seen on my hood seemed to increase and then stop after about 24-30 months of ownership. I have not touched anything underneath the hood.

While I do think this issue is fixable, I am not certain a replacement hood would necessarily would be better if the e-coat process is the same as when these hoods first appeared. If the e-coat is leaching out only after heat cycling, then the preparation would have to get at the excess that is still trapped in the seams.

Does anyone know of a running manufacturing change that has helped to improve this situation?

Don't get me wrong - I think it looks bad and should be addressed, but I am wondering how much can be done on the basis of the way these hoods are constructed and how the corrosion coating process works.

I do believe in some cases, iron contamination could be a factor, especially if the bubbled areas appear on the top of the hood and not underneath.

FordService

Hi DPHC13,

A TSB is a repair procedure sent to our dealers in case someone comes in with a specific concern. It is not a Recall and it’s only covered under your new-vehicle limited warranty. Since you’re out of warranty, your Service Manager can still look into any assistance/discounts they may have available for you.

Deysha

ford4v429

I think the original 'iron contamination' excuse/TSB claimed the iron contamination came from the steel shearing/folding/rolling dies used to process the aluminum hoods... all of this was regarding the underside sheared edges of the hood and underside support panel. personally I still think the sharp edges being painted combined with heat causing expansion forces at the seams breaks the paint film(no doubt other contamination might also contribute) but every picture ive seen of bubbled paint on the topside had crept under from massive paint film failure on the underside first.

I have decided right or wrong, I'm gonna seam seal my undriven 09 hood before it sees water again (car has only been washed a few times, never been wet unless it happened in transport) with 'automotive goop' around its perimeter, except the small drain openings in the corners... of all the adhesives ive used in model aircraft/body seam sealers/window adhesives,I just think the clear semi-hard 'goop' will leave a thick/semi-resilient bond, and theres enough toluene it should bite into the paint... only bad thing about 'goop' is it is a very 'stringy' mixture, and any threads left from pulling the tube away when applying can make a mess... gotta mask everything as dont want the solvents marking stuff up... will post some pics whenever i get around to it- might practice on my 'hideously blistered at 2 year old' 06 hood i pulled off...cant hurt it


I just hope Ford gets a solution - as you could see from the 2013 auto show pics I took (here- https://themustangsource.com/f739/bu...5/#post6561296), this years models were still being poorly prepped 8 years later... hopefully them sending the pics to the factory got some floor folks on the ball- it was undeniably poor prep workmanship at best, and from all the complaints its really upset a lot of otherwise diehard ford fanatics...

cmarolt

Hi. I am new to this site (and thread). I own a Black 2011 Ford Mustang V6. It has 45,500 and I have a 7 year 70,000 Ford warranty. I started noticing the bubbling on the hood earlier this year and now it's getting pretty bad. I would love to find out what can be done. Any advice? I love the car, but this is extremely troubling. I can supply photos, vin, etc... if necessary.

Thanks,

Curtis

stixx2002

Hello neighbor. Your car is under warranty so simply take it to a dealership and have them "fix" it.

FordService

Hello cmarolt,

Welcome to the forum! My name is Deysha with Ford Service. You should speak with your Service Manager, and have it checked at your Ford Dealer. He/she is in the best position to let you know if there is work needed, and about coverage you may have for it (warranty, recall, etc.). Let me know the outcome.

Deysha

cmarolt

Unfortunately, the dealership (Joe Rizza Ford in North Riverside, IL) could not help me because the car was not within the 3-36 base warranty. The car has approx 45,500 and a 7 year/70,000 warranty.

I took it to the dealership and they took pictures of the paint defect. They went to submit it to Ford and were denied.

I have since contact Ford customer service via phone and I now have a case number (woo-hoo)
#CAS-3344172-S6G7V9. I was told I would have to wait up to 4 days for a response.

Not having a good feeling about this....

Curtis

stixx2002

Well that stinks. Being a 2011 I just assumed it was still under 3/36

88lx50

Hello all - I just picked up a 2011 Mustang GT convertible and I am having this issue. I contacted Deysha, heard from her once for some more info, and that was it. What have been some other experiences getting this issue repaired under bumper to bumper warranty?

FordService

I’ve already escalated this for you, 88lx50. Be sure to advise your CSM if you decide to change dealers.

Deysha

GottaHaveIt

a 2011 having the bubbling from the contamination on aluminum hood still WTH I had on my 05 GT then with my 07 GT/CS I think that they don't treat the aluminum properly nor do I think that the hood is even grounded,
Tell me do you ever see a FED EX truck or an airplain have this happen ? never, If I keep my hood I would like an avaition company to fix it up & paint it. I'm shocked that Ford has NOT figured it out as yet , FAIL