narphenal

~Click here to see why I will never use AM for anything ever again!~

Got a few packages from an order placed a little over a week ago; American Muscle for Kooks Headers and Midpipe, new SCT Tuner, and a Late Model Restoration order for their Gen II OTA Pipes.


Except there is one problem. No Midpipe. Which sucks, hard, as this weekend is going to be the only weekend for me in the foreseeable future for me to install these(which I intentionally ordered to arrive before this particular weekend); I had everything worked out, plans made, lift cleared, so on and so forth, to put these puppies on, as I am about to start getting ready and moving to the new casa, and all the work that goes along with that. Called AM, and even though there is a tracking number on the mid pipes, the number will not pull up anything except "UPS Cannot locate shipment", and they are apparently 2-3 weeks out on Headers. Now(after talking myself out of running open headers for the time being) I am just sitting over here debating on just returning it all(sans tuner) as all they are good for now is being a particularly expensive paperweight. Pretty disappointing as I was really excited to get this done.

Oh well, **** happens. First world problems. At least you guys can enjoy some weldporn, here 'ya go.

TheDivaDanielle

couldn't run open headers???

aww man. I've done it before. it was crazy.

Do it!

cdynaco

Almost as good as your welds.

narphenal

I'm seriously considering it. What sucks is I am selling my second vehicle tomorrow morning, or I could just do the open headers, then drive this while I wait for the mid pipe to be delivered.

I'm so split on what to do right now.

TheDivaDanielle

Do it, at least for the experience of the lunacy of it.
you'll learn to short shift like a mother ****er.

i drove my car today without mufflers, if it's any consolation. It was awesome.

narphenal

Is there any possibility of damage on anything? It would be three pretty awesome weeks, lol.

2014GHIGGT

Use the lift. Install the headers. The rest of the exhaust can be installed without the aid of a lift. You have the parts. Do not let them go to waste. Do not run open headers on the highway. You could end up burning out an exhaust valve and your HEGO's will be driven crazy via all the ambient air entering the system and your ECM won't know whether you are running rich or lean. Your tuner could always kill the HEGO's in the tune and force the tune to solely rely on the MAF to set AFR.

narphenal

What is the max speed I should run for the time being? Would killing the HEGO's mess with the Tune from Lund that I am receiving? Do you know whether or not I would be better using a stock tune, a stock lund tune, or a lund tune setup for the headers?

I live about 3-4 miles away from the house and am going to be out of town in two weeks for a few days, so not much miles will be put on it for the time being, I just don't want to mess anything up. Complete novice on tuning, btw.
Thanks.

2014GHIGGT

OK. When I say your tuner would have to kill the HEGO's that would have to be written into your tune file. You can't change that in your handheld sct.

Driving 3-4 miles isn't a big deal. You shouldn't hurt anything. I would NOT run the stock tune. Use the one your tuner sent you. Just be certain not to abuse the motor. Your HEGO's are going to be getting all kinds of false AFR readings.

narphenal

So I would be better off just Contacting Lund and telling him that I am going to be temporarily running Open Headers and to disable the HEGO's? I haven't even ordered the revision on the tune yet.

2014GHIGGT

He knows way more about tuning these than I do. I would ask him.

I was just trying to make certain you were aware that driving with open headers is going to cause false HEGO readings causing your ECM to lean out or fatten up the fuel mixture unnecessarily. I was also trying to point out that there are ways around it but you would have to really know what you are doing.

Either way if you only live 3-4 miles from home you will be fine. Just don't put too much load in the engine. I would recommend no wide open throttle pulls. IMO

TheDivaDanielle

it'll have some goofy readings at idle, but with a load it'll be fine.

narphenal

I knew the AF would be completely screwed.

Mechanically, will the O2's and everything be alright?

Also, this SCT is pretty sweet, pics coming soon.

TheDivaDanielle

sensors should be fine. the AFR @ idle will be a bit goofy. the AFR with a load should be fine. I did it before.

2014GHIGGT

Your ECM does many things but one of the things it does is to continuously make changes to try and achieve stoich. It does this by continuously reading the HEGO's. The ECM commands a specific air fuel ratio. If it is running lean then the command adds fuel, if the HEGO's sense too rich of a mixture the the command removes fuel. When you read a data log you can see the commanded air fuel ratio and determine if your fuel/air table is increasing or decreasing fuel under specific loads. This tells you how well you have the fuel/air table dialed in on your MAF. When tuning you want to try and get your air/fuel tables so that the ECM is making as few changes as necessary. So your commanded air fuel ratio is as close to 1 as possible. Meaning if the commanded AFR is 1.05 then your ECM is adding 5% more fuel to achieve stoich. If it were .95 then the ECM would be decreasing the fuel by 5% to achieve stoich. If it were 1.00 then your ECM needs to make no change.

Then under specific loads or conditions the ECM goes into an open loop status and it no longer makes AFR changes. The AFR solely relies on the fuel/air table in the MAF table. This is an entirely deeper conversation.

Basically open headers = the ECM getting false readings from the HEGO sensors and your AFR will not be anywhere near stoich.

2014GHIGGT

True the AFR will be screwy at idle.

True the HEGO's and anything mechanical will be fine assuming it doesn't get driven far

I don't agree with the statement that the AFR will be fine under load.

In theory the AFR will be fine under open loop provided the fuel/air table is right on but that is a bit gamble to take with an 8,000 motor. I wouldn't do it unless I were darn certain my Air/fuel table was spot on at higher loads on the MAF table. I am not certain at what set of values our ecm's enter open loop. I am not familiar enough with our ECM to make that statement. Does our system go open loop at certain MAF voltage and or a combination of signal from the potentiometer on the accelerator pedal?

The ECM is still making commanded AFR changes under loads and at some point the Commanded AFR is shut off but only when the ECM enter open loop.

narphenal

Well, I am trying to find out if I can get the mid pipe from another company by this weekend or even really early next week so I don't have to worry about screwing up my car.

Hopefully this will go well.

Also waiting on my Lund Tune, and am pretty stoked.

TheDivaDanielle

What needs to be done for headers to be installed, anyway? I heard it was atrocious, and that's the only reason I've sort of pushed them off of my list. That and the power gains aren't like it would be like with my GTO. (picked up a solid 20hp)

2014GHIGGT

Hell yeah. The link to the video from the movie Valkyrie with the new subtitles was hilarious. Lund has a great reputation.

Lund is over at lethal performance, correct?

I am so on the fence with who's tune to use.

Steeda
Lethal
VMP
BAMA

I have heard vmp really has the automatics dialed in. I hear awesome things about Jon Lund. Then I think steeda would probably be OK but on the conservative side which may be OK. Then there is BAMA and I hear some good things about them.

It's funny. I wonder how different these tunes really are from one another? I wish I could see the actual tables. Then we would know. LOL

Suggestions?

2014GHIGGT

Good question.

These late model 5.0's aren't the tiny packages they used to be back in the old pushrod variety. LOL.

The old 5.0 was such a nice small package very similar to the LS-X series V8.

Our new 5.0 is so **** wide at the top and they make accessibility difficult.