TSB concerning aftermarket tuning and modifications
7/1/11, 01:24 PM
#4
Mach 1 Member
Christ, Ford, way to stand by your product. If this engine can't handle a simple f***ing tune, then I guess the fears about its durability were well founded.
And I thought they were doing pretty good for a while. Looks like I made a $42,000 mistake.
And I thought they were doing pretty good for a while. Looks like I made a $42,000 mistake.
7/1/11, 01:40 PM
#5
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Consider your car to "factory tuned". Nothing more is really needed.
Examples of how Ford has taken the aftermarket mods in house:
- CAI: the air box on the new 5.0 can get air within 2 deg of ambient
- Shifter: - the new BOSS shifter is uses a short throw shifter with helper springs very similar to the MGW shifters.
- Tune: TracKey or FRPP
- Lights: sequential turn signals now standard.
others??
Last edited by PTRocks; 7/1/11 at 01:41 PM.
7/1/11, 01:40 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by hawkeye18
Christ, Ford, way to stand by your product. If this engine can't handle a simple f***ing tune, then I guess the fears about its durability were well founded.
And I thought they were doing pretty good for a while. Looks like I made a $42,000 mistake.
And I thought they were doing pretty good for a while. Looks like I made a $42,000 mistake.
7/1/11, 01:40 PM
#7
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its just a CYA notice.. a Check engine light comes on, reprogram it to stock, then disconnect the battery, turn of and on a few times for the cel to come back, bam, bring it in.. when they ask if you disconnected the battery , tell them yes , that you cleared the code to see if it would come back. 
7/1/11, 03:06 PM
#8
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If you want to tune and Mod, put on your big boy pants and assume the responsibility.
The 5.0 appears to be able to handle plenty so I wouldn't worry too much.
7/1/11, 03:27 PM
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So Ford should pay for a failure caused by someone (other than Ford) modifying the car outside the design parameters? What planet are you from? Pretty much every manufacturer has similar disclaimers in the warranty disclosures.
If you want to tune and Mod, put on your big boy pants and assume the responsibility.
The 5.0 appears to be able to handle plenty so I wouldn't worry too much.
If you want to tune and Mod, put on your big boy pants and assume the responsibility.
The 5.0 appears to be able to handle plenty so I wouldn't worry too much.
7/1/11, 05:15 PM
#10
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if the mods are not causing the problem it seems like the two key points on the desicion tree involve the customer being foolish enough to bring it in modded or admit its been modded. They did not include exhaust on that list so they cannot use that against you. plus if you remove the mods and the problem goes away they might actually be the cause.
So if your car is modded and you need a warranty engine repair:
If you have hardware mods return car to stock, if asked say no
If you have software mods, return car to stock if asked say no. if asked about battery disconnect you have 2 options: "wanted to clear code" or "sync issues unrelated to engine problem"... actually can they even tell if the battery was disconnected?
personally i wouldnt do any mods beyond exhaust and wheels, appearance, but for those of you out there this isnt the end of the world.
So if your car is modded and you need a warranty engine repair:
If you have hardware mods return car to stock, if asked say no
If you have software mods, return car to stock if asked say no. if asked about battery disconnect you have 2 options: "wanted to clear code" or "sync issues unrelated to engine problem"... actually can they even tell if the battery was disconnected?
personally i wouldnt do any mods beyond exhaust and wheels, appearance, but for those of you out there this isnt the end of the world.
Last edited by xlover; 7/1/11 at 05:37 PM.
7/1/11, 05:50 PM
#11
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How is the Ford Power Pack? anyone hear anything about this package offered by Ford? Do they make one for the Automatic?..How much time did it knock off the 1/4?
7/1/11, 06:48 PM
#12
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Has anyone every looked into this because Ford or any other car company can't just void your warranty because of aftermarket parts:
Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.
Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.
This is illegal.
Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.
There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.
Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.
If a dealership denies a warranty claim and you think the claim falls under the rules explained above concerning the clean air act (such as an emission part failure), obtain a written explanation of the dealers refusal. Then follow the steps outlined in the owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.
If a dealer denies a warranty claim involving an implied or expressed new car warranty and you would like help, you can contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, you can call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357), or use the online complaint form. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.
Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.
Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.
This is illegal.
Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.
There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.
Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.
If a dealership denies a warranty claim and you think the claim falls under the rules explained above concerning the clean air act (such as an emission part failure), obtain a written explanation of the dealers refusal. Then follow the steps outlined in the owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.
If a dealer denies a warranty claim involving an implied or expressed new car warranty and you would like help, you can contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, you can call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357), or use the online complaint form. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.
7/1/11, 07:04 PM
#13
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I asked my dealer's service advisor for a quote for the dealer to install the FRPP tune (K&N filter plus ProCal/tune) on my 2012. She tried to give me the anti-aftermarket song & dance above. I reiterated to her that it was a frappin' FRPP tune, and she came back with, "we haven't installed any of those before, I'll have to check with the manager to see if we can install something aftermarket like that".
So apparently FRPP = Aftermarket now.
So apparently FRPP = Aftermarket now.
7/1/11, 07:27 PM
#14
I asked my dealer's service advisor for a quote for the dealer to install the FRPP tune (K&N filter plus ProCal/tune) on my 2012. She tried to give me the anti-aftermarket song & dance above. I reiterated to her that it was a frappin' FRPP tune, and she came back with, "we haven't installed any of those before, I'll have to check with the manager to see if we can install something aftermarket like that".
So apparently FRPP = Aftermarket now.
So apparently FRPP = Aftermarket now.
That's pretty... lame. I was just going to say no big deal, just buy from FRPP (which I thought should be their motive to remove competition) but guess not
7/1/11, 07:41 PM
#15
It's not fords fault when they clearly don't support aftermarket tunes. when bone stock 5.0's start popping pistons you can complain about durability
and wow 42g's? lol
7/1/11, 07:49 PM
#16
MOTM Committee Member
So Ford should pay for a failure caused by someone (other than Ford) modifying the car outside the design parameters? What planet are you from? Pretty much every manufacturer has similar disclaimers in the warranty disclosures.
If you want to tune and Mod, put on your big boy pants and assume the responsibility.
The 5.0 appears to be able to handle plenty so I wouldn't worry too much.
If you want to tune and Mod, put on your big boy pants and assume the responsibility.
The 5.0 appears to be able to handle plenty so I wouldn't worry too much.
When Ford (or any other manufacturer for that matter) engineer something they design the components to survive in specific conditions. They try to balance performance and reliability. While they do take the aftermarket into consideration with performance vehicles such as the mustang, no one can legitimately expect them to warranty aftermarket work. I don't get why people assume otherwise. Why should they warranty something they didn't make?
7/1/11, 09:24 PM
#17
Cobra Member
This x 1,000,000.
When Ford (or any other manufacturer for that matter) engineer something they design the components to survive in specific conditions. They try to balance performance and reliability. While they do take the aftermarket into consideration with performance vehicles such as the mustang, no one can legitimately expect them to warranty aftermarket work. I don't get why people assume otherwise. Why should they warranty something they didn't make?
When Ford (or any other manufacturer for that matter) engineer something they design the components to survive in specific conditions. They try to balance performance and reliability. While they do take the aftermarket into consideration with performance vehicles such as the mustang, no one can legitimately expect them to warranty aftermarket work. I don't get why people assume otherwise. Why should they warranty something they didn't make?
I have to agree. And, Ford is not the only one doing this. Subaru wanted to know if my daughters car had been tuned after the engine self destructed. All the manufacturers are looking at warranty claims due to the enormous costs involved. It then took two months to get the engine rebuilt, yes rebuilt. No new engine on a new car.
If you want to play, be prepared to pay or wait until the warranty expires. By then the engine should be well broken in and any weakness in build quality should have surfaced, and been repaired. Quite honestly, if you are not racing this car, I am at a loss to understand why you would want more power for simple street driving. But that's just me. This thing has more then enough power to get me in trouble.
7/1/11, 09:35 PM
#18
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Has anyone every looked into this because Ford or any other car company can't just void your warranty because of aftermarket parts:
Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.
Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.
This is illegal.
Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.
There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.
Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.
If a dealership denies a warranty claim and you think the claim falls under the rules explained above concerning the clean air act (such as an emission part failure), obtain a written explanation of the dealers refusal. Then follow the steps outlined in the owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.
If a dealer denies a warranty claim involving an implied or expressed new car warranty and you would like help, you can contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, you can call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357), or use the online complaint form. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.
Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.
Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.
This is illegal.
Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.
There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.
Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.
If a dealership denies a warranty claim and you think the claim falls under the rules explained above concerning the clean air act (such as an emission part failure), obtain a written explanation of the dealers refusal. Then follow the steps outlined in the owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.
If a dealer denies a warranty claim involving an implied or expressed new car warranty and you would like help, you can contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, you can call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357), or use the online complaint form. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.
The Magnuson act was mainly created so a manafacturer couldn't void your warranty because you used a Fram airfilter vs. a Motorcraft.
Dave
7/1/11, 11:11 PM
#19
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you called engine calibration "a simple ****ing tune"
Ford engineers spend thousands of hours developing a calaibration that is optimal for the car and the end users (not ONE end user every possible owner is considered) most aftermarket tunes just go in and change a few paramaeters and take several of the saftey nets away so that they can make a few more ponies. If the "tuners" at those shops could find a better balance of HP and saftey guess where they would be working? at the OEM......
way back when engines had big saftey margins. 4.6 2 valves for example used to make 215hp, not exactly pushing the envolpe are they? now they have a 302 making 412hp in one trim and 444 in another. and Ford is an HP war with Chevy and Dodge, the gloves are off and they will make as much HP as possible with a 100% safe calibration. If they could have made more HP SAFELY they would have done it. You want to go outside the KNOWN safe zone, thats fine, go ahead but dont expect Ford to foot the bill!
Under your premise its the same as buying a lawnmower, taking the govener off it and then when the mower company says we wont warranty it you say "man I just made a $500 mistake" get real.
The SEMA act doesnt apply here as the aftermarket part IS the cause of the damage/abusive wear, this nullifies the act. Dont believe me? Take it to court when your engine lets go and tell me how it works out for you
