Some rough luck for me, the GT build thread you don't want to have to make
6/10/12, 03:52 PM
#1
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Some rough luck for me, the GT build thread you don't want to have to make
I spent last weekend in Vegas for the Wuste Euro Car show (I represent a group called FRRG which is an Audi Driver's organization). Well, while up in the desert, the car's motor fails. From what we can tell, #7 is full of metal, and its probably valves. The intake valves are bent, and a P0025 code was sent showing a exhaust cam out of position. Oddly, it was super smooth letting go, just a noise progressively getting louder and the engine feeling like it was going in limp mode. On the 5 hour drive up from Phoenix, I thought it had felt a bit down on power, but I had written it off, unfortunately.
Fast forwarding, I obtain a Uhaul (since the nearest ford dealers were 55 miles away in vegas, and no one could see me until the following week) to take the car home, spend 6 hours in the desert loading up the car (what a nightmare it was getting the GT on a uhaul auto xporter), and even get run over in the process (a buddy clipped my foot and leg backing up a car that I was approaching). So additionally, I had some medical concerns to add to my bad luck.
The final bit of bad luck (if you put it that way) was that the repair isn't going to be covered by Ford. I don't want to go into a whole lot of detail on how or why; its a story in itself. Either way, I want to know what failed and how so I can either take responsibility, or advise Ford of the fault.
So now the car is at a friend's and I'm pulling the valve covers today to inspect the top half of the motor and see what condition the valvetrain is. A new service motor from Ford is roughly $5300 (which I'm unfortunately months away from having), or I can look into repairing this one. This thread will follow my progress as I do so.
Initially I wanted to just give up and let the bank have the car (not a terrible thought given the repair costs, what I owe, the damage that would be done, etc), but I'm really not the giving-up type. I'm still discussing with Ford regarding the warranty repairs and coverages, however depending on how much time/money I have to invest in that front I may move forward on the repairs on my own. I will at least be doing the mechanical removal of the engine and install of whatever replaces it (using the factory service manuals, which are still sorta in their infancy unfortunately), and then utilizing a dealer to complete the calibrations and scan tool procedures when installing a new motor.
I should have some pictures shortly of at least my findings. The only thing Ford's done so far besides a warranty cancellation is borescope the one cylinder to find scoring and bent valves.
At this point I'm looking at suppliers, engine builders, and doing my own cost/cap on repair vs replace. If I can get away for the same money on a shortblock with some chosen upgrades, or rebuild this one, then I will. Whatever goes in will be improved and the weakness that caused the failure will be corrected.
Sadly, I don't think I was abusing the car in any manner, but definitely in a higher risk area given the temps out here and lack of fantastic fuel options.
I'll have some pics later this afternoon. Now if anyone has any ideas on how to save money, make money, or get the car running sooner ..... feel free to contribute
. I'd be more upset about this, but its just a challenge to overcome.
Fast forwarding, I obtain a Uhaul (since the nearest ford dealers were 55 miles away in vegas, and no one could see me until the following week) to take the car home, spend 6 hours in the desert loading up the car (what a nightmare it was getting the GT on a uhaul auto xporter), and even get run over in the process (a buddy clipped my foot and leg backing up a car that I was approaching). So additionally, I had some medical concerns to add to my bad luck.
The final bit of bad luck (if you put it that way) was that the repair isn't going to be covered by Ford. I don't want to go into a whole lot of detail on how or why; its a story in itself. Either way, I want to know what failed and how so I can either take responsibility, or advise Ford of the fault.
So now the car is at a friend's and I'm pulling the valve covers today to inspect the top half of the motor and see what condition the valvetrain is. A new service motor from Ford is roughly $5300 (which I'm unfortunately months away from having), or I can look into repairing this one. This thread will follow my progress as I do so.
Initially I wanted to just give up and let the bank have the car (not a terrible thought given the repair costs, what I owe, the damage that would be done, etc), but I'm really not the giving-up type. I'm still discussing with Ford regarding the warranty repairs and coverages, however depending on how much time/money I have to invest in that front I may move forward on the repairs on my own. I will at least be doing the mechanical removal of the engine and install of whatever replaces it (using the factory service manuals, which are still sorta in their infancy unfortunately), and then utilizing a dealer to complete the calibrations and scan tool procedures when installing a new motor.
I should have some pictures shortly of at least my findings. The only thing Ford's done so far besides a warranty cancellation is borescope the one cylinder to find scoring and bent valves.
At this point I'm looking at suppliers, engine builders, and doing my own cost/cap on repair vs replace. If I can get away for the same money on a shortblock with some chosen upgrades, or rebuild this one, then I will. Whatever goes in will be improved and the weakness that caused the failure will be corrected.
Sadly, I don't think I was abusing the car in any manner, but definitely in a higher risk area given the temps out here and lack of fantastic fuel options.
I'll have some pics later this afternoon. Now if anyone has any ideas on how to save money, make money, or get the car running sooner ..... feel free to contribute
. I'd be more upset about this, but its just a challenge to overcome.
6/10/12, 04:13 PM
#2
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****, that sucks, sorry man.
Did you tune the car? I've heard more than one bad luck story associated with the aftermarket tuners.
I went with the Ford Racing tune. If you have it installed by the dealer, it does not void your warranty.
Did you tune the car? I've heard more than one bad luck story associated with the aftermarket tuners.
I went with the Ford Racing tune. If you have it installed by the dealer, it does not void your warranty.
6/10/12, 04:21 PM
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Bummer! Hope your leg is OK. What year? How many miles?
Did you hear any excess valve rattle before it gave way? Is the failure related to a failing oil pump or VCT phasers plugging oil feed like this thread?
https://themustangsource.com/f637/new-engine-required-vct-failure-509575/#post6364875
If you feel Ford should be honoring the warranty, maybe involve Deysha on this forum?
Did you hear any excess valve rattle before it gave way? Is the failure related to a failing oil pump or VCT phasers plugging oil feed like this thread?
https://themustangsource.com/f637/new-engine-required-vct-failure-509575/#post6364875
FORD Dealer: The hypothesis is that the cam phaser failed, causing issues with the cam solenoid, which then cause an oil restriction to the heads/cams...cams ran dry, and sheared metal all over the engine.
Another hypothesis is that the oil pump failed, sending metal into the cam solenoids, blocking flow, starving the heads/cams...
Its definitely one of those two failures.
Another hypothesis is that the oil pump failed, sending metal into the cam solenoids, blocking flow, starving the heads/cams...
Its definitely one of those two failures.
ROUSH: Seems like ROUSH has been hearing (getting calls) for similar failures... Seems like the camshaft are wearing out prematurely, creating metal shavings, clogging up the VCT (variable cam timing) system, and restricting oil to the heads/cams. Seems like Ford has replaced customer engines (not sure how many though) for this failure and the failed engines disappear (shipped back to Ford).
Last edited by cdynaco; 6/10/12 at 04:25 PM.
6/10/12, 07:20 PM
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Good luck man. That's a terrible story and I hope you get your great looking car going again soon. And I guess on the bright side like you said, you can build a better, stronger motor.
6/10/12, 07:32 PM
#5
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That sounds like a horror story. Best of luck getting it resolved. I would also speak with deysha if the dealership won't honor the warranty, provided it's still under one and you haven't voided it with aftermarket tunes or equipment.
6/10/12, 07:35 PM
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Deysha to the rescue! Definitely see what she can do, she is awesome and might be able to help you out.
Total bummer on your engine, sorry to hear about everything. Hopefully you get it fixed soon and have her back on the road in no time!
Total bummer on your engine, sorry to hear about everything. Hopefully you get it fixed soon and have her back on the road in no time!
6/11/12, 02:46 AM
#7
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the warranty is void due to modifications on the car and Ford's evidence of my going to HPDE/School days. I've screamed until I was blue in the face, there's no winning that battle unfortunately.
So I took a valvecover off today, and surprisingly, 16 well-retained valvestems were staring back at me. I was expecting to at least see some carnage around the ones that were noted as problematic.
Some pictures:
a shot down the intake side
overall
plugs 6,7,8 (not thrilled about that oil in 8)
not terrible wear anywhere
one of the valves I didn't expect to see
So I took a valvecover off today, and surprisingly, 16 well-retained valvestems were staring back at me. I was expecting to at least see some carnage around the ones that were noted as problematic.
Some pictures:
a shot down the intake side
overall
plugs 6,7,8 (not thrilled about that oil in 8)
not terrible wear anywhere
one of the valves I didn't expect to see
6/11/12, 05:44 AM
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Electrode completely gone on that left most plug. Too hot on that cylinder?
Sorry to hear of this misfortune with Ford not honoring the warranty at this point. Was it only due to your attendance at HPDE/School days? How did they know? Were you discussing this with them/the mechanics? I would have thought the Ford SVO team would want to examine that engine to learn from it, and offer you some help in the way of warranty help.
Thanks for sharring this. Teaches us to perhaps be quiet about any "fun" we are having with any Ford reps/employees I guess.
Sorry to hear of this misfortune with Ford not honoring the warranty at this point. Was it only due to your attendance at HPDE/School days? How did they know? Were you discussing this with them/the mechanics? I would have thought the Ford SVO team would want to examine that engine to learn from it, and offer you some help in the way of warranty help.
Thanks for sharring this. Teaches us to perhaps be quiet about any "fun" we are having with any Ford reps/employees I guess.
Last edited by Bucko; 6/11/12 at 05:47 AM.
6/11/12, 08:07 AM
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Deysha
6/11/12, 10:21 AM
#11
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My issue with the warranty on this car extends way back to the previous issue with a clutch where I was presented with my own youtube videos, forum posts, facebook wall posts, etc. That same stuff was presented to the dealer when they made a request for repair.
6/11/12, 12:34 PM
#14
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where are you seeing that?
I see a bit of casting lines here or there, but I didn't see any cracks in my inspection.
I'm really hoping it can be repaired with new guides and valves/valvejob.
I see a bit of casting lines here or there, but I didn't see any cracks in my inspection.
I'm really hoping it can be repaired with new guides and valves/valvejob.
6/11/12, 12:45 PM
#16
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I think that's just casting lines or something. Its repeated across both chambers and it was in the other runners as well at the same height. I'll recheck it once the heads are out.
Both those guides are toast though, probably same on the exhaust side. One's cracked, ones's broken and you can see a bit of guide wedged in the seat.
Both those guides are toast though, probably same on the exhaust side. One's cracked, ones's broken and you can see a bit of guide wedged in the seat.
6/11/12, 01:53 PM
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I didn't. Certainly it was worth trying to see if the failure would be covered, however. If its a failure I caused, I'll certainly own it.
My issue with the warranty on this car extends way back to the previous issue with a clutch where I was presented with my own youtube videos, forum posts, facebook wall posts, etc. That same stuff was presented to the dealer when they made a request for repair.
My issue with the warranty on this car extends way back to the previous issue with a clutch where I was presented with my own youtube videos, forum posts, facebook wall posts, etc. That same stuff was presented to the dealer when they made a request for repair.
Deysha wrote me...
Hello Tony,
Thank you for reaching out to me. Warranty coverage is limited to defects occurring under normal use of the vehicle during the warranty coverage period and can be voided if the vehicle is abused, improperly maintained or altered (especially powertrain components). It has been determined by your dealership that this failure did not occur due to a warrantable factory defect. I support the decision of our Dealership who has inspected your vehicle. Therefore, I can’t help refund your costs. You are more than welcome to call the Ford Customer Relationship Center and get this documented and looked into further since it’s still at your dealer. Have a good weekend.
Deysha
Thank you for reaching out to me. Warranty coverage is limited to defects occurring under normal use of the vehicle during the warranty coverage period and can be voided if the vehicle is abused, improperly maintained or altered (especially powertrain components). It has been determined by your dealership that this failure did not occur due to a warrantable factory defect. I support the decision of our Dealership who has inspected your vehicle. Therefore, I can’t help refund your costs. You are more than welcome to call the Ford Customer Relationship Center and get this documented and looked into further since it’s still at your dealer. Have a good weekend.
Deysha
But, when it comes to warranties and if one thing is altered you are FUC
EDDone deal. Personally, makes me not want to mod any future car...
6/11/12, 02:10 PM
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Tony, I'm with you on the modding. I avoid much beyond cosmetic because I don't want to incur the wrath of Ford's Warranty clauses. There are a lot of things I can *imagine* doing to a car that I won't ever consider in the real world. I hate it for you.
6/11/12, 02:58 PM
#19
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More updates soon, I'm off to get my foot xrayed. The pain is really slowing me down, and I'm scrambling to see what I can do to get money together to get the car back on the road.
Thank god for good friends helping me along the way. I don't know what I'd do without them.
Thank god for good friends helping me along the way. I don't know what I'd do without them.
6/11/12, 03:30 PM
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Major league suckage! I'm glad you're not letting the bank have the car back. Good luck with the rebuild hope it goes quickly, properly and inexpensively. Will we be modding the newly improved engine?