Afdharley

Hey guys I'm new here and I hope this doesn't start any Internet battles. Hahaha

Anyway, I've been using Lucas oil in my motorcycles for years now and love it. I noticed that MMP has been using lucas 20w50 full synthetic in their boss's.

Ford says 5w50. Now I don't claim to know what the difference is, not an oil expert.

Do you think there would be any issues switching to the Lucas? Car is warm garage stored in winter so it would be for warm weather driving, some cool temps but definitely no winter driving.

Thanks
Boss2300 CO

texastboneking

Congrats! You have opened a can of worms!

SoFlaBoss

I would like to know this too. BTW, welcome to TMS. You already know me as SoFlaBoss.

Afdharley

Hey Steve, yeah I finally got hooked up over here.

I know oil can be a huge can of worms, I just Had to ask.

This weekend illmhave the opportunity to talk with a Lucas oil guy and get his input.

jouster

O.K. ..... so if you talk to the Lucas guy, he'll say sure, use my oil.
If you talk to the Amsoil guy, he'll say my oil is the BEST!
If you talk to an old oilman, he'll say break your Boss in with Ford oil, then the world is your oyster!
Lucas should be a good choice, especially in hotter Summer weather.
I've used it in Harley's for years, especially the fuel additive.
Ford offers the lower API, and therefore better for cold Winter driving.
Good Luck!

Afdharley

Yeah......that's what I'm expecting for answers I guess.

What I really want to know is the difference between 20w and 5w.

My bike runs straight 50, stroker motor

BlackMamba03

The first number in oil is the cold start weight.

I'd recommend Mobil 1 5w50 or Amsoil 10w40.

zwede

20W-50 will be much thicker than 5W-50 when cold. Cold meaning "engine is not at operating temp". So even starting the car when the outside temp is 100F it will be noticeably thicker.

Will that be a problem? Maybe, maybe not. But if you do have engine problems and you take it in under warranty, I don't think Ford will much like what they find. Enough to refuse warranty? Quite possible.

Afdharley

Miller park runs it in their boss'. Just curious why they switched. Sponsorship from Lucas, maybe.

bolecailey

My guess would be that it is either sponsorship or more than likely it has to do with the amount of track use their cars are seeing there. Motorcraft 5w50 shears down to somewhere near a light 40wt oil to a heavy 30 weight oil, I am guessing they are wanting something more shear stable to withstand the higher temperatures and hard use seen on their cars. As far as the quality of lucas oils, I do not know. I have not seen many VOAs and UOAs for their motor oils and they are a fairly controversial brand on bobistheoilguy forums though this seems to mainly come from trashing their oil stabilizer. I would not run Lucas because there are to many other options with a bunch more data to support their use and quality.

As far as what you should run, depends on what you want. I think there are oils that will be better for this car than the Motorcraft for extended track use, but you run the unlikely possibility of warranty coverage issues if ford finds out. I do think the Motorcraft factory fill is very good oil, just for the cost/availability of it, you can get a much more robust oil that is better suited for high temperature, hard use, track conditions. Basically, this means that each time I track my car with the Motorcraft, I plan to change my oil. If I was using Redline or Motul 300v, I would feel comfortable going 3 or 4 track days and changing ever 4 to 5k miles. Redline is basically the same cost as the motorcraft and arguably a much better oil for track like conditions. The same can be said for Motul 300v but you are looking at around $130 in oil and oil change. The big advantage these oils have is their shear resistance, either one will typically maintain very close to its original weight after extended high temperature runs. Basically, if you put in 40wt oil, after 5,000 miles and 3 track days, it will still be a 40wt oil.

I have not done my first oil change yet because I am only at 500 miles, but I will probably end up running the Motorcraft oil or the Castrol Syntec that meets fords specs for warranty purposes.

servitium

The mechs and engineers who designed and developed your car recommend a very specific type of oil. They've come to that determination objectively with the interests of you, your car, Ford and their own livelihoods in mind.

Knowing that, why would you have a need to try something different?

Afdharley

My experience with Harley and their oil makes me question these things. They would put out a spec and take whatever manufacturer would fill the order at the lowest price and then put their own name on the package. They changed sources like I change my underwear.

I have no problem with ford oil. I'm also not saying ford does this with their oil. I was told by HD insiders this was their practice.

I just want a quality oil to rely on, if that turns out to be from ford I'm good with that.

I really don't want to start a mess since I just arrived on this forum. Thanks for the input fellas.

BlackMamba03

Why would Ford put an oil in the Boss motor that starts out as a 5w50 fill then drops to a mid-30/low 40 weight oil after some use?

LivinTheStangLife

Royal purple nuff said. Always use the viscosity the car calls for. New cars have such tight oil clearances if you throw thicker oil in there it could cause problems, hence the reason no one changes oil types in the winter like they use to back in the day.

bolecailey

There is nothing very specific about that oil other than it is 5w50 synthetic that meets specification that Ford came up with and no other manufacturer uses. I suspect it has more to do with making money. There are only three oils that meet Ford's WSS-M2C931-B(basically a API SM spec oil) Spec, Castrol Syntec (not edge) 5w50, Roush Racing Oil (made by Valvoline and I can't find it anywhere), Motorcraft 5w50. This isn't cost beneficial to most oil manufacturers to manufacture an oil that meets this Ford spec considering only three low volume models use this specified oil. There were quite a few manufactures who made oil that me the old spec WSS-M2C931-A (basically and API SL oil) for this oil, but didn't reformulate when moving to the B spec which I have read is a more catalytic converter friendly formula. My conclusion is that this is makes owners more likely to buy Motorcraft oil and have their vehicle serviced by the dealer.

Like I said, it is decent synthetic oil, but there is nothing special about it. Many quality synthetics will meet and or exceed this spec, they just don't want to pay for the certification when the majority of manufacturers use API standards. A lot of manufactures are moving towards more catalytic converter friendly blends that aren't as harmful to the cats when oil is burned. This unfortunately warrants the removal or lower quantities of some useful additives such as ZDDP that are great wear protectors but tend to be hard on catalytic converters. This is also monetarily driven do to the federally mandated 8 year 80,00 mile warranty on catalytic converters.

If you are interested, you can find out more than you ever wanted to know about oil at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com.

bolecailey

While this is correct to some degree, as in you wouldn't use 20w50 oil in a motor that specs 0w20 or 5w30 normally, a lot of this push to lighter oils has to do with gas mileage and meeting CAFE standards. Manufacturer recommended oil weights are usually a compromise in that they are suggested to meet all of the requirements that your average customer will see. They want an oil that will work in hot and cold climates, offer adequate protection, and get the best gas milage. Why do you thing Ford specs 5w50 in the Boss, Gt500 and GT40 and not the standard GT? I suspect it is because they are more likely to see harder use such as time on the race track and not because of radically different bearing clearances.

texastboneking

I'm so tired of this "Ford does it to help with CAFE laws" BS.........
You might as well believe the world ends this year if your gonna believe that internet rumor.

shaun_beauchamp

^THIS.

Every Manufacturer test engines prior to production runs. They use every resource, including oil manufacturers, to make certain benchmarks.

Detroit used Shell Rotella T in the early 70s to fix a "ticking". Subaru had an oil line issue in 2005 WRX turbos and thus now the only use synthetic. Corvette uses Mobil 1. My 2006 uses FORD Motorcraft "Semi-Synthetic" (made by Chevron).

In a Harley (tractor motor) you are fairly good to get similar life from an engine if there is oil in the motor.

I do tons of research on oils and I find that if a manufacturer warranties a car (especially for 100K) then they are using the oil to get them to that warranty with the least amount of headache$.

I have done oil analysis (lab tested TBN, particulate, etc) on all my oil changes. I have never gotten anything back to indicate that my car will not be best served by the factory Ford fill. Typically the useful life of my oil is at 50% when I am at the suggested change mileage (5000).

Do what you will, but like anything else, being a Pioneer usually is difficult, causes premature death, and makes you "infamous/famous" once you're gone.

bolecailey

I didn't say Ford specifically did it for CAFE laws, I was talking about the industry as whole. This isn't really internet rumors though because all car manufacturers are doing everything they can to increase fuel economy, not that this is necessarily a bad thing.

Oh and the world isn't going to end tomorrow, everyone knows it is going to end 12/21/2012 cause that is when the Mayan calendar ends and they were good at math.

bolecailey

I mostly agree with you. I think the factory fill is good oil and will serve people fine for the life of their motor as it is good quality synthetic. I think following a manufactures recommendation for oil is always smart and safe. I don't think this oil was designed for this motor, but neither are most oils designed for a specific motor. IMHOP, Ford picked this oil because it is the motor oil from their product line that meets the requirements for the intended usage of this vehicle.

That being said, I feel that using any API SM spec synthetic 5w50 oil from one of the major reputable manufacturers will perform just as well as the Ford Motorcraft 5w50 and can be had at a cheaper price. The only place I think you might see a benefit as far as performance is under track conditions as there are formulas that are more shear resistant and are capable of holding up better to prolonged high temperatures. Despite there being more track suitable oils, I think the Motorcraft 5w50 is probably fine for prolonged high temperatures, I would just change it after every track day unless UOAs tell me otherwise and this gets rather expensive.

This is just my opinion but I am basically saying that there is no benefit to running Motorcraft 5w50 over any other 5w50 API SM spec synthetic from a reputable manufacturer such as Castrol or Mobile one outside of the possibility of warranty problems. You are right though in that you can't go wrong running what is recommended from the factory.

And I am done. I usually know better than to get in oil debate.