super6stang

Maybe its just me but I swear I've never seen so many transporters in route to dealers as I have this week.

corvettedreamin

Looks like JonnyB might be shut down or got tired of providing updates at AFM. The sticky thread is GONE.

fritzOSU03

I noticed that. Something must have happened.

Kahdir

Yeah, noticed that too... my last update from him was missing an ETA at the end. I'm hoping it was just a copy & paste error, but my gut is telling me it is due to something else

I've probably annoyed the guy (Ralph I think) @ the plant; got my dealer checking with the regional rep about possible "Hot" status after QC...
If no replies by Wednesday assuring delivery by 7/9/10, I will be driving a 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS.

With plenty sitting on lots for months, dealers are willing to bend-over backwards to move them despite GM not offering rebates.

dragstart

He got his car.

Lancel

Yeah, kinda disturbing. I sort of have a feeling someone shut it down, maybe they were worried all the VINs flying around were a liability posted on a public thread, or who knows, I don't, but I would think only a mod/admin could delete an entire thread. I can only speculate with lame conspiracy theories. Someone should offer an explanation soon enough.

todd03blown

nice looking car but I would wait and wait for your new 5.0 than drive one of those

corvettedreamin

Yep. I tried to delete one of my own threads and couldn't. My guess is this came from Ford to AFM through JonnyB. JonnyB PM'd someone else and said he was asked not to provide the service any more.

So much for transparency. . . Toyota hides the stuck gas pedal issue... Ford is currently hiding the delivery issue... what ELSE are they hiding?!?!? Granted, there's nothing that entitles the public to Ford's operations but the fact that there WAS information that is now being shut down sure does say a lot about a company's customer focus. It's not like Jonny was giving us trade secrets.

HokieCodeMonkey

I'm pretty sure access to that tracking system is supposed to be limited. My dealer said only his manager has the access code to that tracking system. My dealer can only log onto the other, less detailed tracking site. I bet this was an issue with giving out what was supposed to be reserved information.

I can see where Ford is coming from halting JohnnyB but I think they should be trying to keep the loyal pre-ordering retail customers as happy as possible. Just like a restaurant that gives free drinks to their regulars. They are the ones that will bring more business to you so you had better keep them happy, and Ford has been leaving their regulars sitting at their tables after they ordered for months without so much as a glass of water.

Lancel

Site Admin chimed in. Also the thread reappeared again (Suspicion: The thread was only moved to a restricted access forum).

"Hi Everyone!

Sorry to be the bearer of disappointing news.

Just an FYI for you all - JohnnyB has been advised by an advisor that it's in his best interest that he no longer updates those looking for their 2011 vehicles.

Thank you for understanding.

Judi"

Won't speculate on the random thread move/reappearance, but it's clear that someone shut him down. Doesn't sound like he got his privileges revoked, thankfully, but probably someone higher up than him told him to stop doing it. What I find more interesting is that it wasn't JonnyB who posted this, but the Site Admin, leading me to believe that the Site Admin received similar advisement. I can't think of any legal ground they'd have to force the Site Admin to step in and shut it down, but hey, who knows? Either way, someone shut it down hard.

And sadly I won't know when my car finally ships out now. Meaning I'm back to waiting for the next few weeks with the acceptance that any day could be the day. Ugh. Means I probably won't be able to plan ahead at all.

corvettedreamin

What's even MORE sinister is that JonnyB's thread was CLOSED as was the one I created asking about his thread. WHY close them???

fritzOSU03

And so began the demise of Ford democracy.

Lancel

I think that's more the fault of the Site Admin. Someone got to her (at least I hope it's a her with a name of Judi).

OAC_Sparky

The problem isn't "hiding information" per se. The problem is that the employees that are accessing the system are in fact violating the Corporate Confidentiality Agreement that are agreeing to every time they log into a Ford Computer.

Sometimes, people tend bend the rules because in their hearts they want to help -- they're loyal employees and car enthusiasts themselves. But when there is a rather widespread issue (like the Mustang holds now, the Mustang delays in '05, the Hybrid Escape holds a while back), rumors start flying, conjecture is made, accusations happen; and what happens is the extra attention (both negative and positive) draws the interest of upper management.

And what happens is that some poor schmuck gets his job threatened because as far as Ford is concerned, giving out tracking dates is no different than publishing wholesale pricing lists, etc. It's a breach of your employment conditions.

This is precisely why Viperpilot stopped tracking vehicles. There was a quality/certification hold on the Hybrid Escapes/Mariners and people started getting accusatory that Ford was holding them to let incentives date, etc which is a load of BS. But a few of these became persistant in their accusations, calling Ford corporate threatening to sue. (Word to the unenlightened ~~ if you really want reasonable resolution with a company, be careful with throwing around the word "lawsuit". Once it is mentioned most times it becomes a Corporate legal matter and nobody at a lower level will help you. ie don't threaten it unless you mean it.) So he was forced to stop all tracking -- the service became too hot. I'm sure you all understand that a guy's job and family comes before just helping people out.

Now, if I may, I'm going to impart some knowledge to some of you that aren't really familiar with the order and build process (and those that think they are but are not). This is coming from someone with nearly 25 years with the company, in production and in maintaining the equipment.

[1] When Ford builds a new or largely revamped car (which the '11 Mustangs are with 2 new drivetrains), Ford will do a small prebuild sometimes only by hand with a small number of production specialist and engineers to work through any bugs in either design or build process. Once things seem to be worked out, they usually do a "batch integrated build" where during the '10 model year they run a batch of '11s and then go back to '10s. More bugs are worked out. But it still isn't a full production run. The whole process repeats itself in preparation of the Job 1 date; and this is also happening at all the suppliers as well.

Once Job 1 comes and they start running in earnest, they ramp up production; but vehicles are put on quality hold until you have 3 days of zero defects. After this happens, then all the units (after any repairs or adjustments of course) are released. This can be a delay of a few weeks -- and dealers should be more forthcoming about this when accepting preorders.

[2] In a assembly plant, every worker has a job -- but this might not be the same job on every car. Some models may involve more work than others (for example an empty cargo van would be easier to build than a decked out passenger van). So what the plant has to do is settle on a "blend rate" to best distribute not only workload but what the supplier can provide. So if the set blend is ie 60/35/5% V6/GT/Shelby, they order parts from suppliers in that ratio. If one part runs low or the supplier has a production hiccup, if the part can be put on later (ie an a-pillar), they will continue to build the cars then store them so when the shipments come in the cars can be completed.

Now, keep in mind that suppliers size their manufacturing capacity to their demand -- it's logical business sense. But when they do get behind, not only do they have to make up past losses but they still have to build for current production as well. As unfair as it sounds, the assembly plant just can't stop production to give ALL the parts to waiting cars -- they would be losing money on all the cars if they did. So the delay for this can also take weeks to catch up and fit out the waiting cars.

[3] Just a quick note on dealer allocation and build order. No, it's not a perfect system. And no, it's not always fair. And yes, I wish there was a better system. But it's an attempt, believe it or not, at fairness.

Imagine, the day the '11 order banks open, some dealer in Ohio puts in 100 Mustang orders and it your dealer was having internet problems and got your order in last. Maybe your car wouldn't get built for a long time. That isn't fair either -- some dealer in Ohio selling Mustangs on eBay while you can't get one.

So what Ford tries to do, is give allocation based on past sales history (although it seems like favoritism), so that even small dealers can take a kick at the can. Now, generally speaking, customer orders are given a better priority code than dealer orders -- but you still have to consider BLEND (above). If the blend is still 5% Shelbys that STILL means that 19 "other" Mustangs will be built before you even get one shot at it. And keep in mind that ALL options have a blend rate -- whether its V6 vs GT, Shaker vs EP, Auto vs stick. Dealers order a "rapid spec" which is not only a good balance of options to have on the lot, but also a "sweet spot" as far as blend goes too. THAT's why it seems that some dealers seem to get their lot stock while you're waiting.

-------------

So finally, I want to impress a few last points. Ford doesn't want people waiting for their cars. Metal sitting in a yard somewhere isn't bringing in Ford money. Ford wants to move the car just as much as you want to receive it, so they can move onto the next sale. Believe me on this.

The good news is that Ford is attempting to temper the desire to move cars with building quality cars. If the past is any indication, it's a much easier route to just say "good enough" and ship it and let the dealership and customer deal with it. We want you to be happy with your purchases, and would rather see a delay to give you the perfect car than rush you something less than perfect.

Yes, the wait sucks, been there, done that. I'm buying a late '11 early '12 myself, but I'm aiming to get it for NEXT summer, I'll be ordering in January/February/March because I'm in no hurry and I want to get the best incentives I can.

jokerstars

Thanks for the info, mysterious guy!

Are cars that were produced during the last week or two still subject to these rumored holds that have plagued April-May cars? Does QC/fix-it happen at the Ramp or on the line? Any validity to CorvetteDreamin's claim that GT's won't be moved in any significant number until late July?

I've been waiting since April for my car (though I changed the orders a bunch since then, obviously) and right now my car has been sitting at 5P "awaiting shipping" for a week.


EDIT: I thought you were some sort of Ford insider. If not, please ignore my question.

stangfoeva

OAC Sparky = Best Post Ever.

good job man

corvettedreamin

Nothin' new there, Sparky but good info and validation in one place. Thanks for that.

The issue is the WAY Ford is treating customers. From the dealerships to customer service to the absentee management. Whether it's shutting down a helpful source, taking away customer service privileges, or simply passing the buck to people who know nothing, there is just no sense that the customer is important in any of this. You can wave the quality flag as your banner of righteousness but as I've written before and I'll write it here again, "You can not expect to sell cars based on emotion and then not expect that same emotion to be a factor when they're not delivered."

It is interesting that you point out the a-pillar trim since that was actually one of the problems. What I don't understand is how a bunch of cars can go without it and they keep piling up on the lots but the new shipment of trim from the supplier comes in and those cars continue to sit. If the focus is on SELLING cars, they're no more sold sitting in the lot than if production was stopped. On the other hand, if B-shift is going to end in July and there's a production goal for that transition, it makes sense. Just build a pile of 'em and throw 'em in a lot and let someone else deal with it. They're still not sold but the production goal (and hence the marketing campaign) is met. Unfortunately, there's not one thing customer-focused about this approach.

I think EVERYONE will applaud Ford's goal/attempt at quality. But I've owned enough Ford's to know that they're never perfect and they never will be. If my car has the wrong coolant sticker, ask me if I care. If my car has stripes it shouldn't, ask me if I mind? If my car has a timing chain noise, ask me if I want it fixed or a new engine. Whatever the case, retail orders deserve a better level of service than the general feeling that is "we're just sending them to a dealer... keep knocking them out and sending them to Ramp 51."

So the question remains, "When will I see my 2011 Mustang?" Notwithstanding all of your consideration above (thanks for taking the time), that's really all people want to know.

corvettedreamin

Just to clarify, that's not my claim. I merely reported what Ford CS wrote to me.

OAC_Sparky

I don't work at AAI where the Mustang is made so I cannot say for certain their specific repair procedure. Which is why my first post on the forum was about the EP because I haven't seen it in person.

Generally speaking though (ie Ford modern operating procedures) most stored vehicles needing repaired are repaired inside the plant and then re-released.

{Ever look at recall reports? Ever wonder why sometimes a recall only involves "4" specific VINs? It's because "internally" at the plant all vehicles are tracked as to what parts go in, when those parts were built, etc. There is a barcode on the vehicle that gets scanned at various points and every time it is released. Even if they released a vehicle that needs to come back into the plant (ie for a suspect component that was realized after) they rescan it after to make note that the car has been fixed.}

As far as where your car is on the ramp, finished vehicles are sorted in rows (ramps) by transportation mode (rail or truck) and region. Through the logistics system, the load is preplanned (and in some cases mixed with other Ford products going to the same dealer) so that trains/trucks don't leave half empty. Like above, it's a balance between time and cost; and it keeps you from paying $4000 to get your car delivered on a truck by itself. That's why a customer in FL pays the same delivery cost as one in MI -- it's a shared cost. They will wait until enough vehicles are heading to your region (within reason). It might not be even your car holding up the shipment, it may be someone elses that is still awaiting repairs (also within reason of course). The good news though, it that it is ready to ship.

OAC_Sparky

To add, I have no specific insider info as to when the waiting GTs are to be released other than you can go by what you were told or hope that it's a typo. But I can't attest to either, I just don't know.

All I can say is, as I said above, Ford would have no real incentive to make you wait any longer than you already have and I'm confident that they are working as diligently as possible to rectify the situation.