Is your GT manual transmission hard to shift?
11/1/07, 06:52 PM
#41
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To hit 3rd from 2nd, mechanically all that is happening is you are moving the 1-2 slider from 2nd to neutral, changing gates from 1-2 to 3-4 and then moving the slider to 3rd. If its resisting going into 3rd, then it might be the blocker ring for third is jamming and not clutching 3rd gear to slow down the input shaft.
This is what I suspect is happening…not sure…
Yes, however if I was not blocked and the syncros was bad it would grind by not being sync…
Correct and believe me that is the first thing I checked, Steeda engine mounts and MGW shifter was suppose to be the holy grail…don’t get me wrong they are good product but do not help my problem at all…
Oh yes…
Funnily enough not hard at all, never power shifted, I don’t slip my clutch and I think I have grinded my 1st to 2nd gear 2-3 times because I was in La-La land…as a matter of fact my original clutch still looked almost like new after 12000 miles on the KB
Thanks for that, if you check around you will see that there is LOT of people talking about hitting the 2nd to 3rd wall, we can’t all be bad shifter…the blocker ring make sense to me…there has to be some binding in there.
Cheers
11/1/07, 07:30 PM
#42
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While the S197 is a great car however it does have a few shortcommings. The stock shifter setup combined with very mushy engine mounts are a problem.
The shifter is mounted to the body. The stock engine mounts allow more than typical amount of engine / transmission movement under wide open throttle.
This causes the shifter to bind. This is particularly bad going from 2rd to 3rd.
There are a number of solutions.
Polyurethane engines mounts limit this movement allowing even the sub standard stock shifter to perform much better.
Torque limiters. These allow the rentention of the stock engine mounts but still limit engine / trans movement which also improves shifting.
Aftermarket shifters.
Nearly all of them will work better than the stock shifter although the ONLY aftermarket shifter to date that actually adresses the movement problem between the body and the trans is the MGW shifter.
Use any other shifter without adressing the problem of engine / trans movement will be a less than ideal solution.
The shifter is mounted to the body. The stock engine mounts allow more than typical amount of engine / transmission movement under wide open throttle.
This causes the shifter to bind. This is particularly bad going from 2rd to 3rd.
There are a number of solutions.
Polyurethane engines mounts limit this movement allowing even the sub standard stock shifter to perform much better.
Torque limiters. These allow the rentention of the stock engine mounts but still limit engine / trans movement which also improves shifting.
Aftermarket shifters.
Nearly all of them will work better than the stock shifter although the ONLY aftermarket shifter to date that actually adresses the movement problem between the body and the trans is the MGW shifter.
Use any other shifter without adressing the problem of engine / trans movement will be a less than ideal solution.
11/2/07, 01:03 AM
#43
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While the S197 is a great car however it does have a few shortcommings. The stock shifter setup combined with very mushy engine mounts are a problem.
The shifter is mounted to the body. The stock engine mounts allow more than typical amount of engine / transmission movement under wide open throttle.
This causes the shifter to bind. This is particularly bad going from 2rd to 3rd.
There are a number of solutions.
Polyurethane engines mounts limit this movement allowing even the sub standard stock shifter to perform much better.
Torque limiters. These allow the rentention of the stock engine mounts but still limit engine / trans movement which also improves shifting.
Aftermarket shifters.
Nearly all of them will work better than the stock shifter although the ONLY aftermarket shifter to date that actually adresses the movement problem between the body and the trans is the MGW shifter.
Use any other shifter without adressing the problem of engine / trans movement will be a less than ideal solution.
The shifter is mounted to the body. The stock engine mounts allow more than typical amount of engine / transmission movement under wide open throttle.
This causes the shifter to bind. This is particularly bad going from 2rd to 3rd.
There are a number of solutions.
Polyurethane engines mounts limit this movement allowing even the sub standard stock shifter to perform much better.
Torque limiters. These allow the rentention of the stock engine mounts but still limit engine / trans movement which also improves shifting.
Aftermarket shifters.
Nearly all of them will work better than the stock shifter although the ONLY aftermarket shifter to date that actually adresses the movement problem between the body and the trans is the MGW shifter.
Use any other shifter without adressing the problem of engine / trans movement will be a less than ideal solution.
11/2/07, 03:26 PM
#45
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... The stock shifter setup combined with very mushy engine mounts are a problem.
The shifter is mounted to the body. The stock engine mounts allow more than typical amount of engine / transmission movement under wide open throttle.
This causes the shifter to bind. This is particularly bad going from 2rd to 3rd.
...
The shifter is mounted to the body. The stock engine mounts allow more than typical amount of engine / transmission movement under wide open throttle.
This causes the shifter to bind. This is particularly bad going from 2rd to 3rd.
...
11/2/07, 08:12 PM
#46
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Not sure I would agree with that logic. The shifter is mounted to the trans and loosley to the body. Since the stick is in a ball socket, the lever and linkage are able to self align as the engine / trans rocks or twists. Any lateral or vertical motion at the rear of the transmission is accommadeted buy the almost floating sgifter mounting system. There is no bind unless you have a motor or trans mount fail, and even then not likely. The only thing these after market shifters do is reduce the leverage to shorten the shift pattern and add slightly more precision to the shift pattern by high grading the spherical ball. Getting into and out of the gates is still controlled inside the gearbox.
11/2/07, 11:49 PM
#47
Mach 1 Member
Mine also shifts poorly. 95% is the time I can NOT do a fast 2-3 shift at high rpm. No grinding. It just won't go in. Feels like i'm slamming the shifter into a rubbery wall... If I wait 1-2 seconds between shifts it'll go in...
11/3/07, 05:15 AM
#48
Mach 1 Member
i've been suffering with this problem for almost a year now!
i don't have a grinding problem, it's simply very difficult to shift.
i've had the problem with the stock shifter, and the steeda tri-ax and i still have it with the MGW shifter.
i installed the Prothane bullet motor mounts hoping they'd help.. no luck
i then installed the CHE k-member brace with torque limiters.. still no luck.
i can row throw the gears pretty smoothly while idle.. it gets gradually difficult to shift as i pick up speed.
sometimes i also feel something binding in the transmission as i'm trying to come out of the gear.. clutch is fully depressed and i'm coasting.. i try to slide the shifter back into neutral, it resists, then lets go with a thump :S
my clutch still feels like stock, i don't have much clutch free travel, it starts to engage about 1.5" off the floor, doesn't slip on any gear, and doesn't pull the car when in 1st, fully disengaged and engine revved up to 6000 RPM.
it's simply difficult to shift.. but i can force the gear in and it goes.. just doesn't feel right doing so
i don't have a grinding problem, it's simply very difficult to shift.
i've had the problem with the stock shifter, and the steeda tri-ax and i still have it with the MGW shifter.
i installed the Prothane bullet motor mounts hoping they'd help.. no luck
i then installed the CHE k-member brace with torque limiters.. still no luck.
i can row throw the gears pretty smoothly while idle.. it gets gradually difficult to shift as i pick up speed.
sometimes i also feel something binding in the transmission as i'm trying to come out of the gear.. clutch is fully depressed and i'm coasting.. i try to slide the shifter back into neutral, it resists, then lets go with a thump :S
my clutch still feels like stock, i don't have much clutch free travel, it starts to engage about 1.5" off the floor, doesn't slip on any gear, and doesn't pull the car when in 1st, fully disengaged and engine revved up to 6000 RPM.
it's simply difficult to shift.. but i can force the gear in and it goes.. just doesn't feel right doing so
11/3/07, 06:12 AM
#49
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Louie, My tranny's coming out after the beginning of the year and hopefully can shed some light in this. I'm still betting on the synchros...
11/3/07, 09:55 AM
#50
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For you guys pulling your TREMECS for inspection or rebuild you might consider going to full bronze blocker rings and ditch the bronze composites. I only suggest this because David Kee of top loader fame indicated he had done this on the TREMECS in the Mustangs that were predecessors to the S197. Turns out that version used the very same blocker ring size as the top loaders and was interchangable. May require a little more research. Just a thought and theory to consider.
1/4/08, 10:22 PM
#53
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All my gears are ok except going from 2-3. It doesn't hit a wall, it noticebly jolts the stick and grinds as it shifts. But if I pause momentarily in neutral between 2 & 3, let the stick float for half a second and then gently push it up into 3, then it works perfectly fine 100% of the time. RPM range doesn't matter, if I let the stick float then lightly push it home it works. I always shift with the clutch on the floor.
Like I said, no problems with any other gear changes and I put 40k on a car with a performance clutch ('04 BMW Z4 3.0i) before buying the 08 Mustang GT.
I'm guessing it's a syncro, but are there seperate syncros for each gear?
1/4/08, 10:54 PM
#54
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Each pair of gears share the same slider, but each gear has its own synchro or more correctly 'blocker ring'.
If it grinds at 2-3 shift some times, then the 3rd gear blocker ring has not successfully clutched the 3rd gear on the input shaft. Slowing down the shift allows the blocker to eventually clutch 3rd gear on the input shaft.
The Mercon V may be a solution as the friction modifiers have been improved. Some have indicated it is factory spec on the 08 Mustang. Backward compatible, not seen anything to that effect, but suspect it might be.
Ford service department might be able to confirm.
If it grinds at 2-3 shift some times, then the 3rd gear blocker ring has not successfully clutched the 3rd gear on the input shaft. Slowing down the shift allows the blocker to eventually clutch 3rd gear on the input shaft.
The Mercon V may be a solution as the friction modifiers have been improved. Some have indicated it is factory spec on the 08 Mustang. Backward compatible, not seen anything to that effect, but suspect it might be.
Ford service department might be able to confirm.
All my gears are ok except going from 2-3. It doesn't hit a wall, it noticebly jolts the stick and grinds as it shifts. But if I pause momentarily in neutral between 2 & 3, let the stick float for half a second and then gently push it up into 3, then it works perfectly fine 100% of the time. RPM range doesn't matter, if I let the stick float then lightly push it home it works. I always shift with the clutch on the floor.
Like I said, no problems with any other gear changes and I put 40k on a car with a performance clutch ('04 BMW Z4 3.0i) before buying the 08 Mustang GT.
I'm guessing it's a syncro, but are there seperate syncros for each gear?
Like I said, no problems with any other gear changes and I put 40k on a car with a performance clutch ('04 BMW Z4 3.0i) before buying the 08 Mustang GT.
I'm guessing it's a syncro, but are there seperate syncros for each gear?
1/5/08, 01:01 AM
#55
I had this happen to me at the track once. I ended up coasting through the final 1/8th mile because it didn't want to go into 3rd at any speed. 15 minutes later it shifted normally, but anything over 5500rpm was still the "wall" between 2nd and 3rd.
I'd love to hear the reason and solution for this brought to light.
I'd love to hear the reason and solution for this brought to light.
1/5/08, 07:38 AM
#57
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Each pair of gears share the same slider, but each gear has its own synchro or more correctly 'blocker ring'.
If it grinds at 2-3 shift some times, then the 3rd gear blocker ring has not successfully clutched the 3rd gear on the input shaft. Slowing down the shift allows the blocker to eventually clutch 3rd gear on the input shaft.
The Mercon V may be a solution as the friction modifiers have been improved. Some have indicated it is factory spec on the 08 Mustang. Backward compatible, not seen anything to that effect, but suspect it might be.
Ford service department might be able to confirm.
If it grinds at 2-3 shift some times, then the 3rd gear blocker ring has not successfully clutched the 3rd gear on the input shaft. Slowing down the shift allows the blocker to eventually clutch 3rd gear on the input shaft.
The Mercon V may be a solution as the friction modifiers have been improved. Some have indicated it is factory spec on the 08 Mustang. Backward compatible, not seen anything to that effect, but suspect it might be.
Ford service department might be able to confirm.
1/5/08, 12:29 PM
#58
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If you are hitting a wall and not grinding, there are two possibilities as I see it.
a) you are stuck between the shift gates 2-3.
b) the slider is not engaging the blocker ring properly, other wise it would grind or engage the gear.
If the slider engages the blocker ring and it grinds then the blocker ring is not clutching the gear (making RPM's match).
a) you are stuck between the shift gates 2-3.
b) the slider is not engaging the blocker ring properly, other wise it would grind or engage the gear.
If the slider engages the blocker ring and it grinds then the blocker ring is not clutching the gear (making RPM's match).
I had this happen to me at the track once. I ended up coasting through the final 1/8th mile because it didn't want to go into 3rd at any speed. 15 minutes later it shifted normally, but anything over 5500rpm was still the "wall" between 2nd and 3rd.
I'd love to hear the reason and solution for this brought to light.
I'd love to hear the reason and solution for this brought to light.
1/5/08, 03:23 PM
#59
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Not that I have much to add here, but I am having the exact same problem in my '08 GT with the 2-3 shift. It mostly seems to happen when it's cold, and it grinds pretty good if I don't wait a couple beats while shifting between 2nd and 3rd. I wonder if it's something to do with the rpm "float" when letting off the gas. I'm hoping installing the diablosport tune will help with the drive-by-wire issue. I'll be watching this thread closely.
1/6/08, 12:37 AM
#60
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Not that I have much to add here, but I am having the exact same problem with the 3-4 shift. It mostly seems to happen when it's cold, and it grinds pretty good if I don't wait a couple beats while shifting between 2nd and 3rd. I wonder if it's something to do with the rpm "float" when letting off the gas. I'm hoping installing the diablosport tune will help with the drive-by-wire issue. I'll be watching this thread closely.