Granatelli Coil Packs, any real dyno proof
3/25/08, 09:00 AM
#1
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Granatelli Coil Packs, any real dyno proof
I saw the latest flyer from Moss Mustang where they ( Granatelli ) are selling coil packs and claim a 12 hp increase on natural aspirated motors (more on blown or turbo models).
Is there any proof to a HP increase with this mod? No offense to Granatelli, but others have claimed mods will increase HP (TB for example) and that was all BS.
Is there any proof to a HP increase with this mod? No offense to Granatelli, but others have claimed mods will increase HP (TB for example) and that was all BS.
3/25/08, 12:18 PM
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Hotter spark=better fuel burn=more power
I have run the Granatelli COPs and the MSD COPs both. It is a good mod, especially for forced induction.
I have seen dyno sheets from 8 RWHP to 29 RWHP on a forced induction application.
I have run the Granatelli COPs and the MSD COPs both. It is a good mod, especially for forced induction.
I have seen dyno sheets from 8 RWHP to 29 RWHP on a forced induction application.
3/25/08, 12:24 PM
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I haven't personally did any BEFORE and AFTER comparisons, but they seem to work GREAT.
However, I will say this thread should stay on TOPIC and not get into any pissing matches like the last ones.
Let's keep statements factual, ya know?
CR
Tillman Speed
610-497-5776
However, I will say this thread should stay on TOPIC and not get into any pissing matches like the last ones.
Let's keep statements factual, ya know?
CR
Tillman Speed
610-497-5776
3/25/08, 01:09 PM
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3/25/08, 02:12 PM
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Which is better? I'm thinking about getting a set. I'm getting some spark blow out, and HT0's are in good shape and gapped down to .30, so this may be my next step.
Last edited by Hatchman; 3/25/08 at 02:24 PM.
3/25/08, 03:40 PM
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I agree with CR...lets try to keep this thread on topic. Traffic142 asked it these are worth anything on a N/A engine. I can believe they would help on a supercharged or turbocharged engine but he wants to know about a N/A engine. Since I am also staying N/A and am running out of mods for my engine that are reasonable in price I would also like to see a before and after dyno sheet on a N/A motor. CR....seems like a pretty easy test for you guys up at Tillmanspeed to do to prove it. I for one will buy the first set if you can prove their worthyness. What do you say....prove it and group buy!!!
And STD (Blackstang06) will buy the second set.
Scott
And STD (Blackstang06) will buy the second set.Scott
Last edited by 70MACH1OWNER; 3/25/08 at 03:42 PM.
3/25/08, 04:26 PM
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Careful how you define "hotter" here. The VOLTAGE at the spark gap is determined by the combustion conditions (gas composition, temperature, pressure, etc.) and spark gap which determines the breakdown voltage of the gas in the spark gap.
The voltage across the gap rises JUST until the gas ionizes. At that point, the current conducts and the voltage collapses as the energy is discharged across the gap.
So, if the conditions "require" 25k volts to "fire", then the spark voltage will rise up to 25kV then collapse as the current starts flowing. It doesn't matter one wit if you have 45k, 60k or even 1 MILLION volt coils on there, they will only get up to 25kV then collapse.
The only reason you would need "hotter voltage" coils is if your combustion conditions are so bad that they take a LOT more voltage to fire than stock: Very rich, very high cylinder pressure (super or turbo chargers), etc. Other than that, higher voltage buys you nothing at all other than piece of mind.
Hotter current is a different matter. The chamber conditions dictate the firing voltage, but the coils DO have an impact on the amount of energy that is dumped into the spark gap when the plug fires. That is pretty much a function of inductance (how much energy can the coil store in it's primary magnetic field before the plug is fired) and the resistance (how quickly can the coil charge and discharge).
Of course, I haven't seen one single bit of data on actual coil power. Everybody is always quick to talk about the (mostly) irrelevant peak voltage and very, very reluctant to talk about current, inductance, resistance, etc.
One other thing to keep in mind is that a spark is a REALLY crappy way to light a fire! The best spark in the world (think lightening bolt) won't light a mixture if it is too lean or too rich. An open flame works WAY better at lighting off the mix.
Several years ago, I read about an experiment at some university in Australia. They were experimenting with a true plasma ignition system. Basically, they used a tiny prechamber and ignited a very, very rich mixture of fresh air and hydrogen gas. That caused a jet of burning hydrogen plasma to be shot into the main combustion chamber. That burning plasma would light pretty much anything.
They were able to actually throttle the engine on gasoline just like a diesel engine: No throttle body, just adjust the amount of fuel injected to determine power output. It could light mixtures leaner than 28:1. And it ran VERY smooth with incredibly complete combustion. I'm not sure what happened to the technology, but if I had to guess, I would say emissions (mainly oxides of nitrogen) probably killed it.
The voltage across the gap rises JUST until the gas ionizes. At that point, the current conducts and the voltage collapses as the energy is discharged across the gap.
So, if the conditions "require" 25k volts to "fire", then the spark voltage will rise up to 25kV then collapse as the current starts flowing. It doesn't matter one wit if you have 45k, 60k or even 1 MILLION volt coils on there, they will only get up to 25kV then collapse.
The only reason you would need "hotter voltage" coils is if your combustion conditions are so bad that they take a LOT more voltage to fire than stock: Very rich, very high cylinder pressure (super or turbo chargers), etc. Other than that, higher voltage buys you nothing at all other than piece of mind.
Hotter current is a different matter. The chamber conditions dictate the firing voltage, but the coils DO have an impact on the amount of energy that is dumped into the spark gap when the plug fires. That is pretty much a function of inductance (how much energy can the coil store in it's primary magnetic field before the plug is fired) and the resistance (how quickly can the coil charge and discharge).
Of course, I haven't seen one single bit of data on actual coil power. Everybody is always quick to talk about the (mostly) irrelevant peak voltage and very, very reluctant to talk about current, inductance, resistance, etc.
One other thing to keep in mind is that a spark is a REALLY crappy way to light a fire! The best spark in the world (think lightening bolt) won't light a mixture if it is too lean or too rich. An open flame works WAY better at lighting off the mix.
Several years ago, I read about an experiment at some university in Australia. They were experimenting with a true plasma ignition system. Basically, they used a tiny prechamber and ignited a very, very rich mixture of fresh air and hydrogen gas. That caused a jet of burning hydrogen plasma to be shot into the main combustion chamber. That burning plasma would light pretty much anything.
They were able to actually throttle the engine on gasoline just like a diesel engine: No throttle body, just adjust the amount of fuel injected to determine power output. It could light mixtures leaner than 28:1. And it ran VERY smooth with incredibly complete combustion. I'm not sure what happened to the technology, but if I had to guess, I would say emissions (mainly oxides of nitrogen) probably killed it.
Last edited by RRRoamer; 3/25/08 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Expanding my remarks
3/25/08, 06:23 PM
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Hey Steve....don't take this the wrong way but....you sell these and have never done testing??? I wouldn't think you would have to get a third party opinion of a product you market and sell. I am not being mean here at all...but how do you think this post is coming across?? Not being pissy or mean here!!
Scott
3/25/08, 06:50 PM
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Hey Steve@GMS,
Could you post your own dyno sheet on a NA Mustang GT for the COPs? I know you are looking for an unbiased file to post, but what about the file generated that justifies your claims?
Shaun
Milwaukee
Could you post your own dyno sheet on a NA Mustang GT for the COPs? I know you are looking for an unbiased file to post, but what about the file generated that justifies your claims?
Shaun
Milwaukee
3/26/08, 06:42 AM
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I have also run the aftermarket COPs on my car when naturally aspirated. I did not dyno the results, but the car ran smoother, less hesitation and felt better all-around.
I have switched back and forth while running the supercharger from OEM, to MSD to GMS COPs.
I personally feel the GMS COPs perform the best of the three. When I see Brent White I will dyno the aftermarket COPs maybe in May.
When I was N/A though I still was happy with the mod.
I have switched back and forth while running the supercharger from OEM, to MSD to GMS COPs.
I personally feel the GMS COPs perform the best of the three. When I see Brent White I will dyno the aftermarket COPs maybe in May.
When I was N/A though I still was happy with the mod.
3/26/08, 10:24 AM
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Hey Steve....don't take this the wrong way but....you sell these and have never done testing??? I wouldn't think you would have to get a third party opinion of a product you market and sell. I am not being mean here at all...but how do you think this post is coming across?? Not being pissy or mean here!!
Scott
Scott
3/26/08, 02:16 PM
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Hey, if they send us a set, we'll install and test for them on the dyno. We can do one on a stock vehicle, and one on a modified vehicle. I'm sure they make a good difference.
CR
CR
