VIEW THE 2009 MUSTANG ORDER GUIDE HERE!!!

[05fordgt]

Originally Posted by RCSignals

I hope not

Sorry to break it to you, but the government (I believe) will make this (or already has) made this mandatory by a certain year. Its not a bad thing. You can turn it off, remember.

[metroplex]

Originally Posted by RCSignals

I hope not

AGNTSA.

It'll be federally mandated by 2010 so all of the naysayers can shove it up you know where. DSC/ESP works well and should be mandatory as a method of reducing spinouts and rollovers that would otherwise be almost uncontrollable. If you have ever seen DSC/ESP in action, you would see how beneficial it is to any car.

Essentially there is a yaw sensor that detects if the car is going into a spin, along with a steering angle input sensor that detects if the driver is attempting to correct for the spin. If such a condition exists, it will lock or apply the appropriate brakes (depending on which corner is needed) to reduce the chance of a rollover or spin. Tiff Needell is a world class race car driver and even he was unable to recover his Jaguar from a spinout in the snow without DSC. Once he engaged the system, it was a night and day difference.

I have found that our Traction Control systems act as a primitive half-a$$ed method of stability control in that it will reduce the chance of torque induced oversteer and serve to correct minor fishtailing. With good snow tires, a light foot, and steady steering - you generally won't need DSC in the bad weather but it is definitely a useful driver's aid.

I have avoided buying a new winter car because many Fords don't have stability control, but they will HAVE to install it by 2010 MY or 2011 MY anyhow. The same goes for some Subaru models that don't have VDC (their version of DSC / ESP).

Of course the Internet macho men will come in say that they never needed DSC when driving 85 mph down a road covered in 16" of snow and ice using nothing but bald tires, or how they refuse to buy anything that drove the car for them. DSC is nothing "new" and doesn't add anything special to "drive" the car. All it uses is the existing ABS to correct spinouts or prevent rollovers.

Please view this to learn more about stability control:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-hHWSQhKuc

Although this has nothing to do with stability control or 2009 Mustangs, it is fun to watch:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Av0VsTxJd78

[DarkFireGT]

So my two comments would be:

2009 Bullitt? That's going to make some 2008 owners mad!

Sirius STANDARD on ALL PREMIUM GT's? So EVERY premium will have that ugly antenna on the trunklid? WTF was Ford thinking? They give you the option to get rid of the spoiler, but you have to have that stupid antenna?

[metroplex]

Originally Posted by DarkFireGT

Sirius STANDARD on ALL PREMIUM GT's? So EVERY premium will have that ugly antenna on the trunklid? WTF was Ford thinking? They give you the option to get rid of the spoiler, but you have to have that stupid antenna?

That makes my blood boil as well... Sirius/XM is dead technology and automakers are forcing us to wear these stupid Logitech mouse rejects on the outside of the cars as some type of badge of honor.

[RCSignals]

Originally Posted by 05fordgt

Sorry to break it to you, but the government (I believe) will make this (or already has) made this mandatory by a certain year. Its not a bad thing. You can turn it off, remember.

no doubt. We need more Nanny laws.

If it's from Ford you probably will be able to turn it off.

[RCSignals]

Originally Posted by DarkFireGT

So my two comments would be:

2009 Bullitt? That's going to make some 2008 owners mad!

Sirius STANDARD on ALL PREMIUM GT's? So EVERY premium will have that ugly antenna on the trunklid? WTF was Ford thinking? They give you the option to get rid of the spoiler, but you have to have that stupid antenna?

It doesn't bother me. Might bother the very few who paid a big ADM thinking they were buying a collector car.

If you hurry you can order an '08 still, and it won't have that Sirius antenna

[RCSignals]

Originally Posted by metroplex

AGNTSA.

It'll be federally mandated by 2010 so all of the naysayers can shove it up you know where. DSC/ESP works well and should be mandatory as a method of reducing spinouts and rollovers that would otherwise be almost uncontrollable. If you have ever seen DSC/ESP in action, you would see how beneficial it is to any car.

Essentially there is a yaw sensor that detects if the car is going into a spin, along with a steering angle input sensor that detects if the driver is attempting to correct for the spin. If such a condition exists, it will lock or apply the appropriate brakes (depending on which corner is needed) to reduce the chance of a rollover or spin. Tiff Needell is a world class race car driver and even he was unable to recover his Jaguar from a spinout in the snow without DSC. Once he engaged the system, it was a night and day difference.

I have found that our Traction Control systems act as a primitive half-a$$ed method of stability control in that it will reduce the chance of torque induced oversteer and serve to correct minor fishtailing. With good snow tires, a light foot, and steady steering - you generally won't need DSC in the bad weather but it is definitely a useful driver's aid.

I have avoided buying a new winter car because many Fords don't have stability control, but they will HAVE to install it by 2010 MY or 2011 MY anyhow. The same goes for some Subaru models that don't have VDC (their version of DSC / ESP).

Of course the Internet macho men will come in say that they never needed DSC when driving 85 mph down a road covered in 16" of snow and ice using nothing but bald tires, or how they refuse to buy anything that drove the car for them. DSC is nothing "new" and doesn't add anything special to "drive" the car. All it uses is the existing ABS to correct spinouts or prevent rollovers.

Please view this to learn more about stability control:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-hHWSQhKuc

Although this has nothing to do with stability control or 2009 Mustangs, it is fun to watch:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Av0VsTxJd78

What are the spin out and rollover statistics to justify stability control?

Probably not significant to warrant this mandate.

It is nothing more than a 'Nanny law' that should be offered as an option, not mandated.

Many people can't parallel park, perhaps auto self parking should be mandated as well?

[dmhines]

ALL GT's now come standard with 3.73:1 gears ...


Axle Ratio = 3.31 V6
Manual/Automatic and GT
Automatic Transmissions (Limited
Slip on GT) Axle Ratio = 3.73
Manual Transmission/ Limited Slip
(Bullitt™ Pkg. only)

[RCSignals]

Originally Posted by dmhines

ALL GT's now come standard with 3.73:1 gears ...


Axle Ratio = 3.31 V6
Manual/Automatic and GT
Automatic Transmissions (Limited
Slip on GT) Axle Ratio = 3.73
Manual Transmission/ Limited Slip
(Bullitt™ Pkg. only)

That would be nice but you are reading it wrong.

AXLE AVAILABILITY
Axle Ratio = 3.31 V6
Manual/Automatic and GT
Automatic Transmissions (Limited
Slip on GT) Axle Ratio = 3.73
Manual Transmission/ Limited Slip
(Bullitt™ Pkg. only)


Optional Axle Ratio = 3.55 Limited
Slip GT Manual Transmission Only
(455)

It's confusing how they've listed it but it should be

AXLE AVAILABILITY
Axle Ratio = 3.31 V6
Manual/Automatic and GT
Automatic Transmissions (Limited
Slip on GT)

Axle Ratio = 3.73
Manual Transmission/ Limited Slip
(Bullitt™ Pkg. only)


Optional Axle Ratio = 3.55 Limited
Slip GT Manual Transmission Only
(455)

[dmhines]

LOL ... that makes for sense ....

[Deric]

Hope they have Sirius delete and would love the glass roof. I will probably wait until the 2010 is unveiled. Though I must say I love the interior of the 05-09 model. Probably because I like the 67-68 so much.

[metroplex]

Originally Posted by RCSignals

no doubt. We need more Nanny laws.

If it's from Ford you probably will be able to turn it off.

The ESP/DSC systems found on other manufacturer's cars can usually be shut off manually for drifting, racing, or other applications.

This isn't quite a nanny law but rather an additional safety feature that takes advantage of existing ABS hardware. It just makes a whole lot of sense.

I am glad that the government is finally mandating DSC on all cars considering almost every German car already has DSC/ESP even on the expensive sports cars. I just wish they did this sooner!

[metroplex]

Originally Posted by RCSignals

What are the spin out and rollover statistics to justify stability control?

Probably not significant to warrant this mandate.

It is nothing more than a 'Nanny law' that should be offered as an option, not mandated.

Many people can't parallel park, perhaps auto self parking should be mandated as well?

Remember the Exploder fiasco?
How about large cargo vans rolling over?
Let's not forget spinouts on ice and snow.

You could request statistics from NHTSA. I am sure they have them.

I have seen DSC in action and am a believer. They are using it in large commercial vehicles as well, so it doesn't really matter what the tin-foil hat wearers think at this point.

[Wolfsburg]

Wow, a 2009 Bullitt. I wasn't expecting that...

[Gearhead]

I have a 2008 GT on order, and rumor has it that the rebate will increase from $1,500 to $3,000 if sales don't pick-up. Mind you that this is a rumor, but if you were debating upon ordering either a 2008 or a 2009, and essentially their is no difference in the car, you might want to order a 2008 now, rather than ordering a 2009 later. Also, with the relative purchasing power of the dollar dropping from 2008 to 2009, you can bet the price of the vehicle will be more for the 2009s. Also interesting to note that the rumored SYNC as a running change for 2008 still doesn't show up in the order guide for 2009. It still just shows as Mobile Ease.

What is this "Blue Tooth" stuff anyway; some new Pirate Fashion-wear for your dentures?

[05fordgt]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

I have a 2008 GT on order, and rumor has it that the rebate will increase from $1,500 to $3,000 if sales don't pick-up. Mind you that this is a rumor, but if you were debating upon ordering either a 2008 or a 2009, and essentially their is no difference in the car, you might want to order a 2008 now, rather than ordering a 2009 later. Also, with the relative purchasing power of the dollar dropping from 2008 to 2009, you can bet the price of the vehicle will be more for the 2009s. Also interesting to note that the rumored SYNC as a running change for 2008 still doesn't show up in the order guide for 2009. It still just shows as Mobile Ease.

What is this "Blue Tooth" stuff anyway; some new Pirate Fashion-wear for your dentures?

The whole SYNC issue isn't as easy as some say. What Ford will be doing, offering it as an aftermarket item, for cars that are can have SYNC come from the factory (i.e. NO MUSTANG). This is what I heard from my service manager who attended the meeting a while ago. If the car has SYNC as an option, you can add it later. If not, no you can't .So right now, its not available in a Mustang. Maybe for the 2010, but not hte 2009, or earlier.

[Gearhead]

Thanks for that SYNC update. I felt sorta bad not having it, but since it won't be available until 2010 at the earliest, I know I'm not missing anything by ordering the 2008.

[RCSignals]

Originally Posted by metroplex

Remember the Exploder fiasco?
How about large cargo vans rolling over?
Let's not forget spinouts on ice and snow.

You could request statistics from NHTSA. I am sure they have them.

I have seen DSC in action and am a believer. They are using it in large commercial vehicles as well, so it doesn't really matter what the tin-foil hat wearers think at this point.

Exploer fiasco - driver maintenance problem

It was actually passenger Van 'problem' (very few) and again driver inattention problem

Spinouts on ice and snow - again. driver problem

Yes it is a 'NANNY' law issue

the Tin hat wearers are the ones who think it must be 'mandated'

[RCSignals]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

I have a 2008 GT on order, and rumor has it that the rebate will increase from $1,500 to $3,000 if sales don't pick-up. Mind you that this is a rumor, but if you were debating upon ordering either a 2008 or a 2009, and essentially their is no difference in the car, you might want to order a 2008 now, rather than ordering a 2009 later. Also, with the relative purchasing power of the dollar dropping from 2008 to 2009, you can bet the price of the vehicle will be more for the 2009s. Also interesting to note that the rumored SYNC as a running change for 2008 still doesn't show up in the order guide for 2009. It still just shows as Mobile Ease.

What is this "Blue Tooth" stuff anyway; some new Pirate Fashion-wear for your dentures?

they may have to increase the rebate if they don't want to have '08s and '09s (and maybe '10s) competing with each other on lots.

with the way things are turning out time-wise I wonder why they bother with an '09 at all? It's quite possible no '09s will actually be built in '09

[RCSignals]

Originally Posted by metroplex

The ESP/DSC systems found on other manufacturer's cars can usually be shut off manually for drifting, racing, or other applications.

This isn't quite a nanny law but rather an additional safety feature that takes advantage of existing ABS hardware. It just makes a whole lot of sense.

I am glad that the government is finally mandating DSC on all cars considering almost every German car already has DSC/ESP even on the expensive sports cars. I just wish they did this sooner!

From what I've read, teh systems on some can not be turned off, and some that appear to be able to have an 'over ride' that turns it back on.

Your wishing for it is an example of why it should be available as an option.